podtronics filter - 3K rpm ignition miss - anyone experiencing this?

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joe czech

joe czech

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experiencing rough running around the 3K rpm range . hard to explain, but seems to have a slight miss, and sometimes varies with intensity through this rpm range, pretty much just came on all of a sudden. checked the obvious, and all seems good. no issues with starting, and idle seems good. overall, performance, best i can tell, is good. i'm running a podtronics unit the tri-spark e-ignition system. with i vaguely remember a thread on podtronic ignition issues so looking for feedback on folks that have experienced similar issues.
 
Is it load sensitive-i.e. low cruise throttle opening... or strictly RPM regardless of opening? rough running? occasional misfire like stutter?
 
podtronics filter - 3K rpm ignition miss - anyone experiencing this?


Never experienced this problem myself , but here's the writeup from Podtronics.
 
Is your Podtronics/alternator a single or 3 phase setup? Single phase is a known issue with the TS, 3 phase shouldn’t bother it.
 
dynodave said:
Is it load sensitive-i.e. low cruise throttle opening... or strictly RPM regardless of opening? rough running? occasional misfire like stutter?
Click to expand...
OK, may be a bit hard to explain - light load, steady state, 4th gear, i can detect a faint mis-fire - very mild shutter. under load, through the gears, seems extremely rough running coming into the 3K range - almost like a complete mis-fire. may try disconnecting the alternator leads as described in the posted write-up. whatever is causing this doesn't seem to affect lower rpm and idle.
 
Interbak said:
Is your Podtronics/alternator a single or 3 phase setup? Single phase is a known issue with the TS, 3 phase shouldn’t bother it.
Click to expand...
two wire, single phase. replacement alternator as part of the alton e-start system.
 
I think the filter (2 wires) is nothing more than an inductor which would kill any high frequency noise. I use one of these in series with the power to the Tri-Spark:

podtronics filter - 3K rpm ignition miss - anyone experiencing this?


It's 680uH (microhenries), rated at 4.4A, and maybe 1" diameter from eBay. I have big heat shrink over it and just crammed it in between the frame tubes under the tank. I also added more filtering (a big capacitor to ground and a Zener to clip off spikes) to mine but that's probably overkill. The 10,000uF capacitor with 16V Zener diode idea belongs to Jim Comstock here on the forum. I know there's a lot of noise on the -12V even with a 3-phase regulator. I had previously blown up 2 Signal Dynamics voltage monitors before adding protective Zener diodes. I want to make my Tri-Spark very very happy. :)

Light load at constant speed stuttering is usually from wallowed out needle jets. Electrical problem usually carb related...

Russ
 
update - took the 74 out today -- definitely rough running between 2000-3000 RPM - all gears. idle to 2K and RPM's above 3K seems fine.
 
I just installed a Tri-Spark this week after not being happy with the performance of my Mk4 Boyer (the Mk3 seemed to work better IMHO, but that is another story). BTW - impressed with the Tri-spark.

I had the dreaded Podtronic installed, and yes the 3-4000 RPM light throttle miss did appear. I tried the filter fix (my local parts supplier carries them). Not really that impressed with the 18 AWG wire, but on with the show.

Being a skeptic, I popped some spade terminals on the ends so that I could hook it in temporarily to the red wire off the Podronic to test it's function without drastic alterations to the bike.

First thing I noticed - the miss is gone. Second thing I noticed - alternator charging is gone too!! Checked continuity and resistance through the filter - about 0.5 Ohm resistance. Reconnected Podronic without the filter - Charging system works, miss is back.

I tried connecting the filter into the black wire - same results.

I then connected the filter inline with the power lead to the Tri-spark. Miss is 75% gone - charging system works.

Finally, I dug out a square rectifier and a zener diode, pulled the Podronic, installed the rectifier and zener - problem solved. Plus side is, the alternator voltage seems better with the diode and zener.

Should have just done that in the first place.... Story of my life....

FWIW
 
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It all depends on the age of the Podtronics. The latest ones, even with the Tri-Spark filter, the noise is so bad that the bike won't run over about 3500 RPM. Those a couple of years older do work with the Tri-Spark filter. The ones older than that need no filter. The filter goes inline with the ground (red) wire. The filter batrider showed has WAY too many windings but he adds several other components. The Tri-Spark filter has about 12 wraps. Having a good capacitor also helps. The older 3-phase PODtronics has no problem, but the latest ones do. If you look carefully at a current single-phase, you'll see that it appears to be a 3-phase with one yellow wire cut off.

I no longer use PODtronics. Although expensive, I use the Tri-Spark MOSFET regulator. Besides no noise, it's much cooler, a little smaller, has MUCH less drain when the bike is off, and provides a little more charging current.
 
A ferrite choke on the negative (black wire) of the PODtronics is 100% sufficient to do the job.

podtronics filter - 3K rpm ignition miss - anyone experiencing this?


No need to break the line and put in a choke with thousands of turns of light gauge windings - it will impact the charging ability, as it is not designed to carry the current.

...but as you have discovered, a separate zener and rectifier is a much better solution anyway!
 
Derek Wilson said:
I just installed a Tri-Spark this week after not being happy with the performance of my Mk4 Boyer (the Mk3 seemed to work better IMHO, but that is another story). BTW - impressed with the Tri-spark.

I had the dreaded Podtronic installed, and yes the 3-4000 RPM light throttle miss did appear. I tried the filter fix (my local parts supplier carries them). Not really that impressed with the 18 AWG wire, but on with the show.

Being a skeptic, I popped some spade terminals on the ends so that I could hook it in temporarily to the red wire off the Podronic to test it's function without drastic alterations to the bike.

First thing I noticed - the miss is gone. Second thing I noticed - alternator charging is gone too!! Checked continuity and resistance through the filter - about 0.5 Ohm resistance. Reconnected Podronic without the filter - Charging system works, miss is back.

I tried connecting the filter into the black wire - same results.

I then connected the filter inline with the power lead to the Tri-spark. Miss is 75% gone - charging system works.

Finally, I dug out a square rectifier and a zener diode, pulled the Podronic, installed the rectifier and zener - problem solved. Plus side is, the alternator voltage seems better with the diode and zener.

Should have just done that in the first place.... Story of my life....

FWIW
Click to expand...
When you say you have a miss, Is it the electronic ignition being triggered by interference by the regulator? When you strobe time the bike does it show up as the timing is changing and not staying steady ( wandering)?
 
Carl H said:
When you say you have a miss, Is it the electronic ignition being triggered by interference by the regulator? When you strobe time the bike does it show up as the timing is changing and not staying steady ( wandering)?
Click to expand...
The interesting thing is it only did it under light or no load, not under acceleration / maintaining speed. No timing change or wandering, just a straight up miss.

In my experience, the biggest contributor to timing wandering is a loose cam chain (ask me how I know - LOL).
 
Further to my previous post, I got to say that I am not impressed with the Podtronics at all. Since returning to the Rectifier/Zener, I am seeing my battery charge at a full volt higher. Seeing as I am running an Alton, and power is at a premium to begin with, this is HUGE!! I was getting no where near 14 volts with the Podronic, and it was definitely doing something with the power, as I was getting a 0.5 volt power difference between headlight on and headlight off, so it was not just a lower voltage regulation point difference.

Seems now I have power to spare, as as I accidently left the zener disconnected after charging the battery, started the bike, and headlight on, I saw 15 volts momentarily - Ooops! ;)
 
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There may not have been enough AC input voltage to the POD regulator so it can't regulate. If I remember right the Alton alternator is not as powerful as stock.
 
batrider said:
There may not have been enough AC input voltage to the POD regulator so it can't regulate. If I remember right the Alton alternator is not as powerful as stock.
Click to expand...
You are right about the Alton Alternator - I have switched everything to LED to reduce current draw.

I don't think it is a power regulation issue - as if it were, the zener would not be doing anything and it is definitely required, as I can drive my voltage over 15 VDC easily when it is out of the circuit, with all loads applied.

As Grant Tiller has pointed out in his findings, all things sold as "upgrades" are not necessarily upgrades.....
 
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