Why are some original red data plates missing a date stamp?

jimbo

jimbo

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Why are some original red data plates missing a date stamp? Just a factory oops?
 
I've come to that conclusion. It seems like the VIN number was stamped prior to the plate being fitted, presumably it went onto the build line together with the motor & trans assembly.
The date stamps look to be applied afterwards, as they look to be stamped on an already curved plate, perhaps immediately prior to dispatch, and could explain why some got missed.
Maybe
 
B+Bogus said:
I've come to that conclusion. It seems like the VIN number was stamped prior to the plate being fitted, presumably it went onto the build line together with the motor & trans assembly.
The date stamps look to be applied afterwards, as they look to be stamped on an already curved plate, perhaps immediately prior to dispatch, and could explain why some got missed.
Maybe
Click to expand...
At least in some years, the label was attached to the frame before it went on the assembly line - what, if anything, was stamped on it at that time is unknown as far as I know.

Look carefully at the picture here: https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/service/ Clearly, the label is on and the bearings are installed and the frames are not on the assembly line yet.

Norton changed the content of the dispatch records multiple times and on the more complete records, the date on the label matches nothing, for instance: 320691 - Batch No.: 64A, Frame No.: 114572, Date Off Track: 23 Oct 74, Date Passed Test: 5 Nov 74, Date Packed: 11 Nov 74, Date Despatched: 26 Nov 74 to USA the label has 7 1974 so it clearly was stamped long before being finished and it was clearly not on the assembly line for two months. It may have failed the test and then re-entered test once they got around to fixing it. Others in that year were off track, tested, packed and shipped in a day or two. Interestingly, in Aug and Sep 1974, the records were like: Date Built: Aug 26, 1974, Date Dispatched: Aug 26, 1974, MK2, Batch: 384 Note "Date Built" rather than any of the other terms in the record - unfortunately, I don't know the label date for any bikes of this type.
 
marshg246 said:
At least in some years, the label was attached to the frame before it went on the assembly line - what, if anything, was stamped on it at that time is unknown as far as I know.

Look carefully at the picture here: https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/service/ Clearly, the label is on and the bearings are installed and the frames are not on the assembly line yet.

Norton changed the content of the dispatch records multiple times and on the more complete records, the date on the label matches nothing, for instance: 320691 - Batch No.: 64A, Frame No.: 114572, Date Off Track: 23 Oct 74, Date Passed Test: 5 Nov 74, Date Packed: 11 Nov 74, Date Despatched: 26 Nov 74 to USA the label has 7 1974 so it clearly was stamped long before being finished and it was clearly not on the assembly line for two months. It may have failed the test and then re-entered test once they got around to fixing it. Others in that year were off track, tested, packed and shipped in a day or two. Interestingly, in Aug and Sep 1974, the records were like: Date Built: Aug 26, 1974, Date Dispatched: Aug 26, 1974, MK2, Batch: 384 Note "Date Built" rather than any of the other terms in the record - unfortunately, I don't know the label date for any bikes of this type.
Click to expand...
Hi Greg.

I beleive I'm the guy who supplied you with the Aug 26 1974 etc etc data and have been meaning to say I beleive your interpreting the Batch : 384 number wrongly. (Probably 389 actually - hard to read) The following info is from a photocopy of the factory record which I think I supplied to you.

These bikes were built in Batch No

NM 30/74.

That is Norton Motors Batch 30 for 1974.

The other number 389 which I also supplied you is written immediately below the aforementioned Batch no. In the centre of the column. All other info is left justified.

I beleive that the 389 is very probably the number of machines built in that 30/74 Batch.
And possibly all the bikes built in that Batch are Mk11 models. The number in that Batch will therefore run I beleive from 319258 to 319646.

On the same page the final 18 machines of the preceding Batch NM 29/74 can be seen. Again built and Dispatched 26 August 1974. The number below is unfortunately unreadable.The bikes shown on my photocopy in that Batch are 1 Mk11A and 17 Interpols. This 29/74 Batch series ends at machine no 319257 ( shown rather indistinctly on the photocopy).

I also have a partial photocopy of a factory record. NH 31/74 with the number 543 centred underneath. Build date 27 Sept 1974 Dispatch date 5 Oct 1974. All bikes seem to be Mk11A. The first engine no on my photocopy is 319657. This engine number is consistent with my interpretation of the number of machines in Batch 30/74 although certainly not proof.

Under this interpretation the numbers of machines in Batch 31/74 will run from 319647 to 320189. (Just possibly these bikes may all be Mk11 A Interstate and Interpol ????? . This is a pure guess based on 3 Batch data points only)

This is my interpretation of the 389 and 543 figures.

While I cannot be certain of my number of machines in the 30/74 batch interpretation I am very sure 389 is not a "Batch No" sensu stricto

On your info of the 320691 machine I cannot comment except to say I agree that the very end of the Mk2 2A series seems to be very erratic.
 
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I have seen 320774 it has an RH10 head and cross mounted battery though somebody has cut the side cover mount off the battery tray so confident it started life as a MK2A, a friend re patriated it from Samoa and sold it on, John the interesting thing is it has a Manawatu Motorcycle Club sticker under the seat so it may have started life here.
 
possm said:
I have seen 320774 it has an RH10 head and cross mounted battery though somebody has cut the side cover mount off the battery tray so confident it started life as a MK2A, a friend re patriated it from Samoa and sold it on, John the interesting thing is it has a Manawatu Motorcycle Club sticker under the seat so it may have started life here.
Click to expand...
Interesting. 320775 is recorded as an Interpol by Thomas Hannam in his Facebook VIN database. He doesnt say what country the bike is in. Current owner has owned it since 1980 so a good chance the Interpol information is correct.

Good chance that 320774 is the last Mk 11 / 11A series bike in NZ. Could it maybe have been an Interpol with that battery although the Manawatu sticker wouldn't support that.?
 
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johnm said:
Good chance that 320774 is the last Mk 11 / 11A series bike in NZ. Could it maybe have been an Interpol with that battery although the Manawatu sticker wouldn't support that.?
Click to expand...

Interpols generally (not all) had single seats so assuming it now has a dual seat with the sticker then the seat could have been changed.
 
johnm said:
Hi Greg.

I beleive I'm the guy who supplied you with the Aug 26 1974 etc etc data and have been meaning to say I beleive your interpreting the Batch : 384 number wrongly. (Probably 389 actually - hard to read) The following info is from a photocopy of the factory record which I think I supplied to you.

These bikes were built in Batch No

NM 30/74.

That is Norton Motors Batch 30 for 1974.

The other number 389 which I also supplied you is written immediately below the aforementioned Batch no. In the centre of the column. All other info is left justified.

I beleive that the 389 is very probably the number of machines built in that 30/74 Batch.
And possibly all the bikes built in that Batch are Mk11 models. The number in that Batch will therefore run I beleive from 319258 to 319646.

On the same page the final 18 machines of the preceding Batch NM 29/74 can be seen. Again built and Dispatched 26 August 1974. The number below is unfortunately unreadable.The bikes shown on my photocopy in that Batch are 1 Mk11A and 17 Interpols. This 29/74 Batch series ends at machine no 319257 ( shown rather indistinctly on the photocopy).

I also have a partial photocopy of a factory record. NH 31/74 with the number 543 centred underneath. Build date 27 Sept 1974 Dispatch date 5 Oct 1974. All bikes seem to be Mk11A. The first engine no on my photocopy is 319657. This engine number is consistent with my interpretation of the number of machines in Batch 30/74 although certainly not proof.

Under this interpretation the numbers of machines in Batch 31/74 will run from 319647 to 320189. (Just possibly these bikes may all be Mk11 A Interstate and Interpol ????? . This is a pure guess based on 3 Batch data points only)

This is my interpretation of the 389 and 543 figures.

While I cannot be certain of my number of machines in the 30/74 batch interpretation I am very sure 389 is not a "Batch No" sensu stricto

On your info of the 320691 machine I cannot comment except to say I agree that the very end of the Mk2 2A series seems to be very erratic.
Click to expand...
I, on purpose, don't keep track of who provides information so I can't go back to see where I went wrong. I've tried to fix based on what you've said here. Please check me. If you can send me what you have I'll try to include it all.
 
marshg246 said:
I, on purpose, don't keep track of who provides information so I can't go back to see where I went wrong. I've tried to fix based on what you've said here. Please check me. If you can send me what you have I'll try to include it all.
Click to expand...
Hi Greg I resent my earlier message with a bit more clarification.

The only issue is 389 is not a batch number.

It's the number of bikes actually built in the NM 30/ 74 Batch.

👍
 
jimbo said:
heres a 72 combat with a date stamp on the same side of the vin

www.ebay.com

1972 Norton 750 Commando Combat 2472 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 1972 Norton 750 Commando Combat 2472 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com

View attachment 108129
Click to expand...
I've seen a couple in 72 like that. It makes me think that the serial was there all along and near the end of the assembly line the date was stamped.
 
marshg246 said:
It makes me think that the serial was there all along and near the end of the assembly line the date was stamped.
Click to expand...

The date stamp could, however, have been added any time before the bike was dispatched maybe days/weeks after it came off the production line or several months in the case of some (front drum-brake?) MkIV Fastbacks, etc. and might explain the haphazard (and missing) date stamping.
 
I contacted the NOC about #208XXX without a date stamp, heres what they said
Looking at your enquiry for Norton records, but unfortunately your record is in a big batch that is missing presumed destroyed. All I can tell you is it from July 1972 going by other machines we have logged.

All Nortons of that period were sent to either Berliner in New York, Seattle or Los Angeles. But they did not keep records of which dealer they sent them to.
 
L.A.B. said:
The date stamp could, however, have been added any time before the bike was dispatched maybe days/weeks after it came off the production line or several months in the case of some (front drum-brake?) MkIV Fastbacks, etc. and might explain the haphazard (and missing) date stamping.
Click to expand...
True - basically anytime after the serial was stamped and before dispatched at least in some years.
 


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