Where do these connectors go?

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74JohnPlayer

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Sep 2, 2010
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I'm thinking these are unused connectors for part of the Interpol equipment, but not certain. They're on the right side of the bike and go back into the main harness, just below the rear oil tank mount. Definitely not for a Zener diode - both of those are connected. When I got the bike, the 14" part of the harness that contains these wires was duct taped to the frame. Two red earth wires, and two brn/blu power feeds. Any one know what they are?

Stu

Where do these connectors go?
 
There is like half a shoe box full of dead end unconnected un needed loops like these. My manual is out in shed but close color coding and some tracing will reveal is these are for radio, flashing lights or siren. To get rid of them properly requires re-doing whole loom.
 
74JohnPlayer said:
Definitely not for a Zener diode - both of those are connected. When I got the bike, the 14" part of the harness that contains these wires was duct taped to the frame. Two red earth wires, and two brn/blu power feeds. Any one know what they are?
Click to expand...

I must admit I don't know where the second Zener is usually fitted on a JPN, but they look like typical Zener/Z plate wires and connectors.
 
The red you can pretty much count on being a ground. (Can't seem to have enough of these.)
The other with the connector looks to be a faded brown and white which can go to maybe the warning light assimulator. Best guess.
I am sure other will either confirm or clarify.
Please confirm the color of these wires.

On a MKIII it is differant. Not knowing what you have there the brown and white goes to the warning light unit to the warning light. If it is yellow and white, it may go to the cutout switch. In both situations, the location down by the footpeg seems odd.
Again need the colors confirmed.
 
pvisseriii said:
The other with the connector looks to be a faded brown and white which can go to maybe the warning light assimulator. Best guess.
I am sure other will either confirm or clarify.
Please confirm the color of these wires.
Click to expand...

It would also be useful if the size and type of the insulated terminal could be confirmed? If it's a 3/8" wide female spade, then its almost certainly a Zener connector.
 
Sorry guys. Maybe I should have been more specific. I said the wires are brn/blu. Maybe brown/blue would have been better. There's no brown/white wire in this pic (camera flash caused it to look white). Also, this bike uses the RM23 alternator w/ 2 zeners exactly like the MKIII - one on each Z bracket. And as I said, both zeners have their wires attached. I believe Hobot has the answer for this. I'll just tape it neatly out of the way. Thanks, all that responded.

Stu
 
Given the location and the fact that you have two zenners and both are connected, I hazzard a guess that the two terminations may be for the police horns. Hobot's advice is good if this be the case.

RS
 
These could have also gone to the capacitor(other blue can (possibly eliminated at some time)) or the power point charger plug(also possibly eliminated).
 
74JohnPlayer said:
Sorry guys. Maybe I should have been more specific. I said the wires are brn/blu. Maybe brown/blue would have been better. There's no brown/white wire in this pic (camera flash caused it to look white). Also, this bike uses the RM23 alternator w/ 2 zeners exactly like the MKIII - one on each Z bracket. And as I said, both zeners have their wires attached. I believe Hobot has the answer for this. I'll just tape it neatly out of the way. Thanks, all that responded.

Stu
Click to expand...

Brown blue wires are always hot, they're connected to the negative terminal of the battery, so it wouldn't be for a horn. It sounds exactly right for a zenir diode. Could it be that you have one of the zenirs hooked up incorrectly?

-Eric
 
74JohnPlayer said:
Also, this bike uses the RM23 alternator w/ 2 zeners exactly like the MKIII - one on each Z bracket. And as I said, both zeners have their wires attached.
Click to expand...


I think I can answer this now.

As the JPN has an RM23 180W single-phase alternator (because of the twin headlamps) with two Zeners apparently wired exactly the same as a MkIII, then one Zener will be connected to the green/yellow (AC) stator wire and the other Zener connected to the white/green (AC) stator wire, and as far as I know, the JPN uses the pre-MkIII harness so the "extra" brown/blue would be the normal single Zener connection.
 
L.A.B. said:
74JohnPlayer said:
Also, this bike uses the RM23 alternator w/ 2 zeners exactly like the MKIII - one on each Z bracket. And as I said, both zeners have their wires attached.
Click to expand...


I think I can answer this now.

As the JPN has an RM23 180W single-phase alternator (because of the twin headlamps) with two Zeners apparently wired exactly the same as a MkIII, then one Zener will be connected to the green/yellow (AC) stator wire and the other Zener connected to the white/green (AC) stator wire, and as far as I know, the JPN uses the pre-MkIII harness so the "extra" brown/blue would be the normal single Zener connection.
Click to expand...

I'm not an electrical engineer, but I wouldn't think that would work. My understanding is that the zenir diode, like a regular diode, acts as a conductor in one direction and not in the other. This is why you'll blow the main fuse if you hook up the battery backwards. I'd think you'd be dumping a lot of the AC current to ground if you hooked it up like this.

-Eric
 
Mystery Solved!

ewgoforth said:
It sounds exactly right for a zenir diode. Could it be that you have one of the zenirs hooked up incorrectly?

-Eric
Click to expand...
No, the zeners are hooked up correctly - for this oddball bike. But you just helped me solve the mystery! The John Player is a strange mix of parts - some from a '74, some from a Mk3, and some from neither. The bike has a '74 wiring harness but uses a Mk3 charging system. The mystery connectors are indeed the standard hookup for the single zener diode that would have been used with the standard '74 alternator. It's unused on the JPN. They used add-on sub-harnesses to gang the outputs for the zeners together with the alternator leads at the rectifier. Thanks for the mental jump start. It was a team effort, but we got it!

Stu
 
ewgoforth said:
L.A.B. said:
74JohnPlayer said:
Also, this bike uses the RM23 alternator w/ 2 zeners exactly like the MKIII - one on each Z bracket. And as I said, both zeners have their wires attached.
Click to expand...


I think I can answer this now.

As the JPN has an RM23 180W single-phase alternator (because of the twin headlamps) with two Zeners apparently wired exactly the same as a MkIII, then one Zener will be connected to the green/yellow (AC) stator wire and the other Zener connected to the white/green (AC) stator wire, and as far as I know, the JPN uses the pre-MkIII harness so the "extra" brown/blue would be the normal single Zener connection.
Click to expand...

I'm not an electrical engineer, but I wouldn't think that would work. My understanding is that the zenir diode, like a regular diode, acts as a conductor in one direction and not in the other. This is why you'll blow the main fuse if you hook up the battery backwards. I'd think you'd be dumping a lot of the AC current to ground if you hooked it up like this.

-Eric
Click to expand...

No, that IS in fact how the 850 MkIII RM23 double Zener (and half wave rectifier) system works.

Where do these connectors go?
 
L.A.B. said:
No, that IS in fact how the 850 MkIII RM23 double Zener (and half wave rectifier) system works.

Where do these connectors go?
Click to expand...

Right. It's also how the older Japanese regulator/rectifiers for permanent magnet alternators work. They shunt AC to ground. Anyhow, thanks again to all of you guys for getting me straightened out. The PO had these wires duct taped in plain sight to the frame tube to the rear of the oil tank, and I'd convinced myself he'd ripped off some electrical accessory. BTW, the bike had the rectifier for the RM21 on it rather than the one shown on the diagram. I installed a solid-state replacement from Raber's.

Stu

Where do these connectors go?
 
74JohnPlayer said:
BTW, the bike had the rectifier for the RM21 on it rather than the one shown on the diagram.
Click to expand...


Well, it always puzzled me why the MkIII's 49181 two diode rectifier wasn't listed in the JPN parts supplement-even though two Zeners were!

So the JPN may have had the 4 diode RM21 rectifier as standard?

The two diode 49181 2DV 406 MkIII rectifier actually has no ground connection (see diagram above) nor is one necessary (or even desirable-perhaps?). Presumably sometime between fitting the 180W RM23 double Zener system to the JPN during '74 and the introduction of the 850 MkIII, the rectifier was changed to the two diode version, so theoretically your charging system should still work if the rectifier's ground wire was disconnected?
 
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