What's happening at Norton? Sale to TVS, massive investment, new bikes...

jan nelder said:

hopefully they will avoid the Norton Nightmare……

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Fantic have the Caballero name already. BTW the MD has stated that there will be four model ranges in total, the first ones launched this November, the the last rolled in 2026. I expect one will be a 100hp plus Commando range.. with road, touring / ADV and maybe sports versions. The second will be a cheaper smaller range.. 650 twin ? and the third something like the new Triumph 400s, built by TVS in India. Maybe the fourth will be a hyperbike like the V4, but that seems unlikely to me...

Bevelheadmhr said:

Fantic have the Caballero name already. BTW the MD has stated that there will be four model ranges in total, the first ones launched this November, the the last rolled in 2026. I expect one will be a 100hp plus Commando range.. with road, touring / ADV and maybe sports versions. The second will be a cheaper smaller range.. 650 twin ? and the third something like the new Triumph 400s, built by TVS in India. Maybe the fourth will be a hyperbike like the V4, but that seems unlikely to me...

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Bevelheadmhr said:

Fantic have the Caballero name already. BTW the MD has stated that there will be four model ranges in total, the first ones launched this November, the the last rolled in 2026. I expect one will be a 100hp plus Commando range.. with road, touring / ADV and maybe sports versions. The second will be a cheaper smaller range.. 650 twin ? and the third something like the new Triumph 400s, built by TVS in India. Maybe the fourth will be a hyperbike like the V4, but that seems unlikely to me...

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We’re guessing of course. One will be a smaller capacity electric bike (larger electric sports models to follow as stated), developed in various locations but produced in Honsur I think. We’ll see that first is my guess.

A larger capacity water cooled twin range in various guises will be the mainstay I guess; don’t think they’ll use the Commando name again until much later. A middleweight twin range - would not be at all surprised if one variant were Atlas-esq. Can’t see another full blood sports bike with the V4 sat there - what more potential has that got (although sales have been limited)? The ‘something for everyone’ quote? Maybe a smaller capacity family - who knows.

Are Norton gonna try and compete on ‘outright performance’ with the big boys? Maybe, but as they’ve said the ‘premium’ tag suggests up-specced, better componentry and a bita-bling - and play on the marque name/exclusivity. Only time will tell if that works - depends a lot on where they put that price point I’d guess. The division of output between Solihull and Honsur? My guess that will shift over time depending on the volume of sales.

Yes, there’s still the nagging doubt about what will be ready to show at the NEC this year. Not long to wait though.

For most potential buyers, Norton is the Commando, I think the new Commando range will debut along with a new cheaper middle weight. Electric bikes may be the future, but the market isn't interested yet. Sales of Electric bikes are tiny, and falling as government contributions are ended.

Bevelheadmhr said:

For most potential buyers, Norton is the Commando, I think the new Commando range will debut along with a new cheaper middle weight. Electric bikes may be the future, but the market isn't interested yet. Sales of Electric bikes are tiny, and falling as government contributions are ended.

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Badly worded by me ‘see first’ meaning we’ll see a prototype commuter, rather than a developed machine. Electric later yes, but because they’re not yet sufficiently developed, more so than a lack of buyer interest I think. They’ve committed to that route - I think they’d want to make headway as soon as possible. They’d find a market for the lower capacity commuter I suspect, despite what’s happening in the rest of the electric market.

I think Norton has already disclosed that there will be six bikes initially(?), all ICE powered. Larger capacity parallel twin and middleweight families is a good bet. Again we’re just guessing - but that’s half the fun right?!

Bevelheadmhr said:

For most potential buyers, Norton is the Commando, I think the new Commando range will debut along with a new cheaper middle weight. Electric bikes may be the future, but the market isn't interested yet. Sales of Electric bikes are tiny, and falling as government contributions are ended.

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I hope that you're right about the Commando moniker. In one of Dr. Bob's interviews a while back, he said that the Commando name would probably appear in some future offering. I think the only problem is that the a new (completely new design) Commando would have to eliminate the 961. Norton would not want prospective new buyer to confuse the new one with the 961's questionable past history.

Any new Commando would have to carry a clear differentiation from the 961. Say, something like "Commando II", or "Commando DOHC", or some easily distinguishable labeling. And of course, they have to deliver the real deal, a modern (in all terms), reliable machine by current standards.
It can't be a dud, or a turkey with peculiar weaknesses!

BritTwit said:

I hope that you're right about the Commando moniker. In one of Dr. Bob's interviews a while back, he said that the Commando name would probably appear in some future offering. I think the only problem is that the a new (completely new design) Commando would have to eliminate the 961. Norton would not want prospective new buyer to confuse the new one with the 961's questionable past history.

Any new Commando would have to carry a clear differentiation from the 961. Say, something like "Commando II", or "Commando DOHC", or some easily distinguishable labeling. And of course, they have to deliver the real deal, a modern (in all terms), reliable machine by current standards.
It can't be a dud, or a turkey with peculiar weaknesses!

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Yep, I think they’ll leave the Commando name until much later in the piece. These are the first bikes they’ve engineered from the ground up - no perculiar weaknesses to engineer out. Can’t see them engineering any in with Brian Gillan (MV) running the show. He’s credited with a complete revision of the MV F4 engine that had become a bit of a basket case over time. Reckon he’ll prove to be a good hire.

The electric models are a real conundrum though, who will be the target market whilst ICE bikes remain available? Yes FE, I do remember the survey you started and no, we relics from the early ICE age (sorry ICE era) are not amongst likely adopters. Difficult to see the future market though, cos it’s so early in development. Legislation is pushing all marques to invest though, with some pretty interesting stuff on the way. The Triumph TE-1 amongst them. Suspect we won’t be forced to choose in our lifetime.


Norton has necessarily nailed their flag to that mast and taken government money to do so - although comments on ‘fully electric by 2040’ have been walked back slightly. Be interesting to see what they come up with although the whole market may struggle with practicality, if they can’t improve on range. Wouldn’t be surprised if electric bikes never reach their full potential before other technologies supersede it. Not interested in having one in my garage but I’d quite like to ride one for the experience.

six new models may well mean different bars on same basic bike etc etc, never mind when they will actually be in the market, and where they will be built. All unknown quantities so far….

I don’t believe a single word from TVS Norton.
They can say what they want, I’ll believe it when I see it.

When they literally show new models, and offer them for sale and purchase is when I’ll believe it. Then I still wouldn’t buy one until I know for a fact that parts are available. But none of this matters to me because no dealer is available outside the UK.

It blows my mind that this company stays in the closet and never shares anything to its potential customers. Way too secretive for me.

What ever happened to this?

No manufacturer announces details of bikes before its official launch, so Norton are no different. The current production, a carry over from the previous era can only be sold in the UK, hence no dealers outside of the UK. The new models, whatever they are, will be sold globally. Which implies that their will be dealers in other countries where Norton want to sell. In three months, we won't have to wait and speculate any longer.

I actually have a slightly different beef.

My beef is that, at times, they shared too much information too quickly.

By that I mean that in the pursuit of content they have provided information that was obviously premature, not thought through properly and was proven wrong: Lots of promised launch days came and went. Teased ‘exciting announcements’ turned out to be trivia. And one example that sticks with me is Gladrags saying that the Atlas range was dropped because they were focusing on EVs… only to now announce pretty much the opposite (6 new ICE products and no EVs in the near future).

So whether it’s the lack of info, or the wrong info, their communication strategy is a joke.

Fast Eddie said:

I actually have a slightly different beef.

My beef is that, at times, they shared too much information too quickly.

By that I mean that in the pursuit of content they have provided information that was obviously premature, not thought through properly and was proven wrong: Lots of promised launch days came and went. Teased ‘exciting announcements’ turned out to be trivia. And one example that sticks with me is Gladrags saying that the Atlas range was dropped because they were focusing on EVs… only to now announce pretty much the opposite (6 new ICE products and no EVs in the near future).

So whether it’s the lack of info, or the wrong info, their communication strategy is a joke.

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But didn't one of the execs at Norton say that they dropped the Atlas range because they couldn't successfully negotiate new contracts with the suppliers? I remember reading something to that effect in the media.
Anyway, seems all info offered up from by TVS/Norton has to be taken with enormous grains of salt.

Bevelheadmhr said:

No manufacturer announces details of bikes before its official launch, so Norton are no different. The current production, a carry over from the previous era can only be sold in the UK, hence no dealers outside of the UK. The new models, whatever they are, will be sold globally. Which implies that their will be dealers in other countries where Norton want to sell. In three months, we won't have to wait and speculate any longer.

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You’re missing the point here.
And yes, other companies do in fact show new models before going into production. Want proof? And yes even tvs Norton has done so.
What’s this?
Where is it?
Who’s bought them?
How many were sold and been made?

TVS fails miserably with any kind of marketing and advertising. The only people who know of TVS Norton are those in the UK and those of us on this forum and maybe a few handful outside this forum.
I’m going to a cafe bike show today in my area, which is only open to cafe bikes and attended by a few thousand spectators and over 300 cafe bikes. I’ll ask some random people / strangers if they are aware that NORTON is in business.
I’m not going to be surprised by the number of people who are clueless. The last time I took my 961 Domi there, nobody had a clue Norton was making bikes. I was asked by many where and how and when they were being made. These were British bike enthusiasts.

BritTwit said:

But didn't one of the execs at Norton say that they dropped the Atlas range because they couldn't successfully negotiate new contracts with the suppliers? I remember reading something to that effect in the media.
Anyway, seems all info offered up from by TVS/Norton has to be taken with enormous grains of salt.

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I don't know, but more than likely. Yet more contradictory information…

The Atlas motor was to be built by the Chinese joint venture partner of Aprilia, Zongshen with the Chinese using a lower horsepower version. My guess was the exclusivity of the Norton brand desired by Norton/TVS precluded the use of an engine also sold by a Chinese company. Maybe they tried to buy the exclusive rights back but the price was too high. Zongshen have increased the 650 twin to 850cc already so the lower power has already been breeched.

Also dealing with a company that also makes bikes for Aprilia would also be questionable for exclusivity.


Most of this would have been in the pre pack, if it was not needed they took far too long to discard it and start all over again.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this forum, of what’s gone before and what is yet to come - as it should be.

Is it fair to say though that at times, it’s also an echo chamber for the same historical issues - repeated and amplified - often to the exclusion of any achievements or potential. Is there room for any clear air, where we acknowledge mistakes have been made but with anticipation of new Norton motorcycles?

dunno, i just have a glance now & then, no idea waddup in the chambers,

the parts situation alone, & going to ill will, is weird,

customers can & will speak up, as they see fit,

i have the highest respect for norton vets & what they have to say

Stephen_Spencer said:

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this forum, of what’s gone before and what is yet to come - as it should be.

Is it fair to say though that at times, it’s also an echo chamber for the same historical issues - repeated and amplified - often to the exclusion of any achievements or potential. Is there room for any clear air, where we acknowledge mistakes have been made but with anticipation of new Norton motorcycles?

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Time will tell, I’m just not holding my breath.

Stephen_Spencer said:

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this forum, of what’s gone before and what is yet to come - as it should be.

Is it fair to say though that at times, it’s also an echo chamber for the same historical issues - repeated and amplified - often to the exclusion of any achievements or potential. Is there room for any clear air, where we acknowledge mistakes have been made but with anticipation of new Norton motorcycles?

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Voodooo said:

Time will tell, I’m just not holding my breath.

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Easy customer call, not my problem.

Show me the goods, cos others already do & are good at it.

Show me the goods & it better be good, or i go somewhere else.

A Heritage name doesn’t guarantee success, the BSA Gold Star 650, heavily pre ordered and anticipated has already saturated its market in the UK with £1000-£1500 discounts advertised on new bikes, bikes on showroom floors collecting dust. Will be interesting to see how the Triumph 400 range fares after twelve months.