What's happening at Norton? Sale to TVS, massive investment, new bikes...

Onder said:
Missed the boat? Well for a lot of us on the list, future models are not something we need to think about unless you wish to park it next to your
stuffed chair in the lounge. Sadly, we are running out of time.
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Steady on old chap,summer just around the corner 😎
 
Looks like the PCP deal, due to have ended at the end of Dec, has been extended according to Andrew on FB. Doubt he’ll be able to buy a new one in two years as he describes, but he’ll be able to purchase his own or trade up. Norton obviously see this as a worthwhile sales approach.

More bikes, more spares, more support. Win-win for 961 owners.

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MAK said:
Could be in the market for a new bike..
I know what I want so do I wait for the Norton offering or die of old age.!
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I'm sure something will appear very quickly and I suspect it will be badged TVS and / or Norton for the Indian market. There is a nice number of 400 - 750cc bikes due to be released in India this year, as it stands TVS have nothing to counter this - interesting times ahead it could be.
 
Madnorton said:
I'm sure something will appear very quickly and I suspect it will be badged TVS and / or Norton for the Indian market. There is a nice number of 400 - 750cc bikes due to be released in India this year, as it stands TVS have nothing to counter this - interesting times ahead it could be.
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TVS has only ever made small capacity motorcycles, for the domestic market (and export); suspect there are overriding commercial reasons for that. Not sure why that would change this year?

My guess - the likelihood of a middleweight Norton being released in India before launching of the new line-up in the UK would be close to zero. But who knows - stranger things………!
 
Considering the current economic climate, the only sensible place to release a bike this seems to be India. India's position globally away from conflicts, with a growing economy and a population that believe it or not is getting more affluent, it would make sense if the they did a release there.
 
Madnorton said:
Considering the current economic climate, the only sensible place to release a bike this seems to be India. India's position globally away from conflicts, with a growing economy and a population that believe it or not is getting more affluent, it would make sense if the they did a release there.
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Not sure we can say that it ‘makes sense’ (economic or strategic) for TVS to release a middleweight Norton in the Indian market, ahead of the UK release.

That would run completely contrary to the market expectation that Norton has been trying to build. Given the significant amount of money, time and effort that has been spent to maintain the British (heritage) profile of Norton - commercial suicide?

Who knows though - the market appears to be all over the place!
 
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The current potential Norton 961 owner is someone in their 50's or older, with plenty of disposable income. The 'current economic climate' is mainly due to high rents and mortgage costs, which for the older demographic is irrelevant as they typical own their own home. It's interesting that the current PCP deal has generated so many 'sales' in a quiet part of the year for dealers, similar to the way 90% plus of new cars are sold in the UK. Most of these new owners are just renting the bike for two years for a tiny monthly sum, how many will hand over £12K at the end of the deal is debatable, given that identical bikes will come on the market for less at that time.

I suspect Norton have done this to keep their dealers happy and keep interest in the brand going before the new models arrive, later than planned.
 
Bevelheadmhr said:
The current potential Norton 961 owner is someone in their 50's or older, with plenty of disposable income. The 'current economic climate' is mainly due to high rents and mortgage costs, which for the older demographic is irrelevant as they typical own their own home. It's interesting that the current PCP deal has generated so many 'sales' in a quiet part of the year for dealers, similar to the way 90% plus of new cars are sold in the UK. Most of these new owners are just renting the bike for two years for a tiny monthly sum, how many will hand over £12K at the end of the deal is debatable, given that identical bikes will come on the market for less at that time.

I suspect Norton have done this to keep their dealers happy and keep interest in the brand going before the new models arrive, later than planned.
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Interesting take Bh, ya may be spot on there! I guess the dealers would make their (albeit modest) profit at the point of sale. So if they’ve been informed that there is any delay in the new machines, this would definitely be a sweetener for them.

My guess though, that Norton will still expect a good number of those sold under PCP to be purchased outright at the end, or traded up. There may be some cheaper 961’s available at the time, but not that those owners have run-in and looked after for two years. Their bike from new, in the last of its line. Only time will tell.

Had HP as a kid, Gpz1100 unitrack - Gpz 900r - 1000 RX etc; never paying one off fully before taking the next. Not really familiar with PCP. Interesting to see other manufacturers use it also, including Triumph (using 8% APR though). Maybe Norton plan to permit an upgrade of PCP agreement to new models to sweeten that upgrade. No doubt they’ll be using every tool available in what is a very tight market. Be interesting to see how it all unfolds.

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Stephen_Spencer said:
Not sure we can say that it ‘makes sense’ (economic or strategic) for TVS to release a middleweight Norton in the Indian market, ahead of the UK release.

That would run completely contrary to the market expectation that Norton has been trying to build. Given the significant almount of money, time and effort that has been spent to maintain the British (heritage) profile of Norton - commercial suicide?

Who knows though - the market appears to be all over the place!
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A case in point was the pre-orders for the Indian made Triumph 400 for the Indian market, they had a massive number on pre-order. I do agree the global market is all over the place and as it is the western world would be the worst place to launch a premium bike at the moment. Triumph, RE and BSA have had success using their British roots and building sensible bikes out of the UK, no reason why that would not work for Norton.
TVS are not new to this, they have a global plan and I suspect with what is going on in the world at the moment that plan has a lot of fluidity built in to suit a fast changing market place - it would be foolish if the hadn't.
 
Madnorton said:
A case in point was the pre-orders for the Indian made Triumph 400 for the Indian market, they had a massive number on pre-order. I do agree the global market is all over the place and as it is the western world would be the worst place to launch a premium bike at the moment. Triumph, RE and BSA have had success using their British roots and building sensible bikes out of the UK, no reason why that would not work for Norton.
TVS are not new to this, they have a global plan and I suspect with what is going on in the world at the moment that plan has a lot of fluidity built in to suit a fast changing market place - it would be foolish if the hadn't.
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Understand what you’re saying Mn. However I think 2+ years of product design and development of Norton motorcycles, to enter the prestige market in UK/Europe/US, is unlikely to be shelved in favour of budget machines released into the Indian market. There’s fluid and then there’s ‘fluid’!

May be wrong - often am! Just ask ‘er indoors’!:rolleyes:
 
As referenced above, neither RE or BSA build bikes in the UK. BSA have a 'factory' here, but so far have admitted that all BSAs are built in India... due to 'supply chain issues'. I had always thought that any BSAs built in the UK would be simply assembled here, from knock down kits imported from India. But even that isn't happening yet.
 
concours said:
Dealer contributing $3500...
Final acts of desparation to move these vehicles off their inventory list.
Forsaking all profit. To just be done with them.
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It’s more than just a discounted list price… and I don’t think it’s the dealers doing the contributing in reality.

You pay a £69 deposit then £69 per month for 2 years.

If you paid cash, then sold for cash in 2 years it would cost you more in depreciation alone.

So someone is paying for that, and the interest.

Someone (ie TVS) is subsidising this whole push HEAVILY…

But if you want to enjoy a new Norton for a couple of years totally risk free, then you can do so for the price of 2-3 beers per week !!
 
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Fast Eddie said:
It’s more than just a discounted list price… and I don’t think it’s the dealers doing the contributing in reality.

You pay a £69 deposit then £69 per month for 2 years.

If you paid cash, then sold for cash in 2 years it would cost you more in depreciation alone.

So someone is paying for that, and the interest.

Someone (ie TVS) is subsidising this whole push HEAVILY…

But if you want to enjoy a new Norton for a couple of years totally risk free, then you can do so for the price of 2-3 beers per week !!
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Well, maybe it doesn't mean the same thing there, as it does here. 🤷🏻‍♂️
What's happening at Norton? Sale to TVS, massive investment, new bikes...
 
Fast Eddie said:
I just don’t think it’s true.

Dealers are offering this ‘contribution’ even where they have no stock…

It has to be funded by TVS IMO.
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Lets not forget that these dealers are getting the required service from these buyers. This service is not covered by the dealer , but rather by the buyer. Also insurance full coverage will be provided by the buyer . The bike will be brought in at 600 miles , 1000 miles , etc..
 
I’m sure they’d be much happier if bikes were flyin’ out the door at full RRP, but I guess they must’ve done a cost-benefit analysis. It’s not offered on the anniversary bikes.

PCP was a short term offer that seems to have been extended because they have started selling in volume. Don’t think it’s a matter of just being done with them, or using up spares.

Likely benefits Norton/TVS get out of the PCP offer?

- Sale price of £13750 if owner keeps bike (a loss on RRP obviously).
- Bike back for resale if owner opts out (a likely loss of course) + any excess mileage charged
- Through-life income from service/spares.
- Income for dealers prior to release of new models.
- Likely increase in sale of merch’ and accesories.
- Build activity in the event of any delay - keeping the Norton workforce employed.
- More Nortons in circulation - rolling advertisement of a quality machine (these bikes get a lot of attention).
- Attracting younger buyers that can afford one through PCP, that couldn’t otherwise.
- Increased likelihood owners (new and old) will upgrade to another Norton.
- Any advertisement is good advertisement etc etc.

Think it signals the end of 961 though - but we knew that anyway right. Would they ever be able to sell one at full price on the conventional market again? Guess only time will tell whether it’s a worthwhile sales initiative or not.
 
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