what' s your choice :Lucas ,Sparx or Wassel

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marinatlas

marinatlas

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Hi, it will be time to make a choice between those three units, what will be the best , knowing the OEM one will be twice the price, is there a real difference in quality ?
Will you go to the 180 watts or stay with the normal 110 watts, as I will not have any elecytric starter and will put a small Shorai (7A) battery , after all it's not a power plant just a bike ..........!
 
marinatlas said:
Hi, it will be time to make a choice between those three units, what will be the best , knowing the OEM one will be twice the price, is there a real difference in quality ?
Will you go to the 180 watts or stay with the normal 110 watts, as I will not have any elecytric starter and will put a small Shorai (7A) battery , after all it's not a power plant just a bike ..........!
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I think that if you go with the 7ah battery than the 110watt stator will be good. That being said, lighting and certain ignition systems like a bit more of a power plant senerio. The 180 watt stator is nice but you need to match it with the proper REG/REC unit and at least a 11AH battery, preferably a 14ah just to keep things balanced.

Other than that, the choice of manufacturers is sort of a wash.
 
I like the complete Sparx setup, alternator, regulator/rectifier and ignition.

Although I haven't tried it personally, the Sparx EI is supposed to work just fine with either the integrated capacitor reg/rect that they offer or the "plain" Sparx reg/rect with a new 2MC capacitor; NO BATTERY required, supposedly.

The bottom line being that the Sparx alternator kit will fire up their ignition unit on the first kick.

I WILL put this to the test in a few months when my next project in-work is at that stage.
 
pvisseriii said:
marinatlas said:
Hi, it will be time to make a choice between those three units, what will be the best , knowing the OEM one will be twice the price, is there a real difference in quality ?
Will you go to the 180 watts or stay with the normal 110 watts, as I will not have any elecytric starter and will put a small Shorai (7A) battery , after all it's not a power plant just a bike ..........!
Click to expand...
I think that if you go with the 7ah battery than the 110watt stator will be good. That being said, lighting and certain ignition systems like a bit more of a power plant senerio. The 180 watt stator is nice but you need to match it with the proper REG/REC unit and at least a 11AH battery, preferably a 14ah just to keep things balanced.

Other than that, the choice of manufacturers is sort of a wash.
Click to expand...

I don't understand the larger battery to match the higher wattage alternator. Could you explain the theory behind that?
 
rvich said:
I don't understand the larger battery to match the higher wattage alternator. Could you explain the theory behind that?
Click to expand...
The theory is, effiency is promted buy a balance in supply and demand. To better understand, take it to the extreme. If you have a 20ah battery and a 48watt stator, you will only be able to supply 4 ah to the 20 ah battery. This will more than likely burn out the stator in a short amount of time. Now take a 200 watt stator and a 4ah battery, this will overload the reg/rec unit burning it out in short order.

The other variable is what the system needs to function properly as in electric starter, hot lights and a lot of night riding, or LED's, no starter and a low demand EI system. It has been seen that a low demand system is around 9 to 11 ah and a high demand at around 18ah and a very popular number being at 14ah offering the most versatility.

A matching system feeds the battery what it needs yet no more than to cause the reg/rec to have to unload unnecessarily. That is to say everyone is shaking hands without loosing grip (little stator big batt) nor breaking bones ( big stator little batt).
That's the theory anyway.
 
Hi,

I have the Lucas 180W three phase stator and the podtronic box mounted on my bikes. It is recommended to exchange the rotor as well, if it is still the first.
There is a date stamped on the rotor. In Germany, we have to ride with light in the daytime and flashers are required for bikes as of 1961.
Therefore a 180W alternator is needed.

Ralf
 
The three phase Sparx unit on my Triumph was running a 60W H4 headlight and points ignition and would show positive amp flo at idle. It was also nice to ditch the rectifier and zener diode for the compact Sparx control unit as well.
FWIW
 
Hi , it appears that few people got some trouble with their power plant, is Lucas still manufacturing ??
 
pvisseriii said:
The theory is, effiency is promted buy a balance in supply and demand. To better understand, take it to the extreme. If you have a 20ah battery and a 48watt stator, you will only be able to supply 4 ah to the 20 ah battery. This will more than likely burn out the stator in a short amount of time. Now take a 200 watt stator and a 4ah battery, this will overload the reg/rec unit burning it out in short order.
Click to expand...

My apologies, but this is not how I understand this to work.

The stator produces its output based on the speed and magnetism of the rotor, it knows nothing of the regulator or the battery. Having too large a battery will not burn out this type of stator. Some alternators in other types of vehicles receive feedback from the system and vary their output based the overall state of charge; these systems might have this problem, especially once they get old and brittle.

A high output stator will only damage a battery if the regulator is not correctly sized for the output. For instance, a 200 Watt alternator that is regulated by a regulator rated for 50 Watts will damage the regulator, and then depending on the mode of failure of the regulator it may continue to over charge and ruin the battery. It may also fail and stop charging altogether.

No need to buy a huge alternator if you dont need it, however. In my mind, the 180 Watt alternator does not qualify as too big in any circumstance unless you run points and without lights.
 
comnoz said:
Lucas stators are still available. More trustworthy than Sparks in my book.
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Unless they are old stock then they are likely to be "Lucas" in name only, as Lucas gave up manufacturing what are now obsolete motorcycle parts many years ago.

http://www.holden.co.uk/displayProducts ... andCode=X8
What is a “Lucas “ part?
Lucas, as the manufacturing conglomerate it once was, no longer exists. The various sites were sold off or closed down (as in the Birmingham Hampton Street site). Management buy-outs and some specialist factories still exist. At the time of sale of these companies, the parent ‘Lucas’ company entered into long term trade agreements, whereby those factories could continue to manufacture the same items and use the Lucas brand. Our understanding of the current ownership of Lucas is that they make modern braking components and fuel injection systems. There appear to be agreements with some companies to sell modern reproduction items using the Lucas brand, and packaging – these items, in our opinion, are sometimes good, sometimes poor.
Click to expand...
 
Seems a bad omen to purchase electrical components with a name like sparx. I once hired "Leaky's Plumbing" and soon learned where the name came from.
Was tempted to hire a local company called "Flash Bang Electric" but held off, it was too soon after the Leaky's ordeal. :D
 
The encapsulation colour looks unoriginal for a start. The date code on the rotor looks like 04/02 which is not in a Lucas font of old and when this was made the factory had become a housing estate. Chances are they could be from Lucas TVS in Madras as they manufacture a whole lot of the old Birmingham Great King St and Great Hampton St plant's products. Maybe Burtons could help out?
 
My apologies, but this is not how I understand this to work.

The stator produces its output based on the speed and magnetism of the rotor, it knows nothing of the regulator or the battery. Having too large a battery will not burn out this type of stator.
Click to expand...

This is my understanding as well. This type of alternator puts out a continuous amount of power for a given rpm, up to its max output. Some or all of this power gets used by the system to charge the battery or run the electrical load. If the output is greater than the total electrical load, the excess power is dumped into the frame by the Zener. This turns the excess electrical power into heat, hence the cooling fins on the reg.

Glen
 
L.A.B. said:
comnoz said:
Lucas stators are still available. More trustworthy than Sparks in my book.
Click to expand...

Unless they are old stock then they are likely to be "Lucas" in name only, as Lucas gave up manufacturing what are now obsolete motorcycle parts many years ago.
Click to expand...

L.A.B. is correct. Lucas don't manufacture motorcycle stators anymore, but products bearing the Lucas name are available, stators, switches, beam units, reflectors etc.
 
Hey,

Will be offering a new high output alternator kit. Now that Sparx are starting to have some issues with their production I wont be selling them any longer.

Kit will have:

- Lucas, 3 phase alternator
- Wassell rotor
- Pazon voltage regulator
- Resistor caps
- Voltage regulator bracket
- All wiring and hardware to install

This kit will be available in the next week or two.

Matt / Colorado Norton Works

http://www.coloradonortonworks.com
 
L.A.B. said:
comnoz said:
Lucas stators are still available. More trustworthy than Sparks in my book.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Unless they are old stock then they are likely to be "Lucas" in name only, as Lucas gave up manufacturing what are now obsolete motorcycle parts many years ago.

I am sure you are correct but at least they have made in England stamped on them. Jim
 
comnoz said:
I am sure you are correct but at least they have made in England stamped on them.
Click to expand...

Well, that "Made in England" stamp must make all the difference, although I would seriously doubt they are actually "Made" in England. :wink:
 
L.A.B. said:
comnoz said:
I am sure you are correct but at least they have made in England stamped on them.
Click to expand...

Well, that "Made in England" stamp must make all the difference, although I would seriously doubt they are actually "Made" in England. :wink:
Click to expand...

Are you saying those Indians might have "Made in England" stamps? :shock:
 
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