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Thruxton Production Race 1962

Discussion in 'Triumph (Classic)' started by acotrel, Dec 31, 2012.

  1. Bernhard

    Bernhard

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Don’t you mean the Arrow :?:

    It is surprising at that time that these ring-a- dings finished a race :!: :)
     
  2. beng

    beng

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Anyway good job on saving this historic piece of video for us all!

    With 1962 being the last year for Norton production at the Bracebridge Street, and the first year for the 650ss model, I have long felt that 1962 was the year that Norton was at it's best. By fate I have ended up with four 1962 featherbed sporting Nortons to work on.

    In fact my opinion is that 1962 was the best year for all the British marques that were still in business.
     
  3. acotrel

    acotrel

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2012
    I've been uploading all the old footage I can get . But stuff from pre 70 is hard to get. I found this Thruxton clip quite emotive, I really hope some of the young guys get an idea of what it was really like back then. These days it is all a bit better, more guys stay alive, even though they are going faster.
     
  4. Bernhard

    Bernhard

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011

    There are some on this website from the mid 1960s ;
    http://www.vintagebike.co.uk/galleries/videos.php


    ..................and hundreds of pics of bikes A-Z
     
  5. Bernhard

    Bernhard

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    This is a bit off topic, but the information might be useful..................

    249cc 1960 Ariel Arrow - George Brown Sprint Special

    During the same weekend George also took the British Standing Start Kilo Record in 250, 350 and 50Occ classes on a special Ariel Arrow. This machine had been lent by the Selly Oak Company to see what the Brown brothers could do - a good deal, it seemed.
    Held the flying Kilometre speed record at 122.45mph.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/gordoncalder/4600149198/
     
  6. acotrel

    acotrel

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2012
    I wonder where they got the pistons for the Aerial Arrow? In those days a few pistons were forged, most were cast. The Japanese developed the machine which spun cast then forged the two stroke pistons, so that the grain flow was better, and they did not seize so easily. I'm amazed that the Arrow was so fast without doing a number on itself. The bike which made me laugh was the Greeves which had a big piston diameter, also they intially used GP carbies with big velocity stacks. After the stack fell off and the bike actually revved out they found themselves with a much quicker bike. One of the guys who started historic racing in Australia smashed the shit out of himself when a Greeves seized in a corner. When Jack Findlay was racing the aircooled TR500, Suzuki lent him a couple of their good pistons, then took them back after he won the GP.
     
  7. beng

    beng

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    I found the video elsewhere on the internet with a bit better quality and ripped a few photos of the Nortons from it.

    If you look carefully at the video, you can see that there were two 88ss bikes that look identical except for the numbers.

    Anyway absolutely fabulous motorcycles, and also very rare motorcycles these days.

    Notice the 650ss has an ATRC Smiths tacho, but the 88ss looks to have the standard chronometric sitting up proud on it's bracket.

    The 650ss was the flagship of the Norton range for 1962 and always got the most attention, but the 88ss was very important because it's 500cc displacement gave Norton a legitimate 500cc hot-rod to enter in production races the world over.
    Since the top class in the World Championship was 500cc, the various sanctioning bodies in different countries had their top and most respected racing class at 500cc also. In the USA the AMA let the 500cc OHV bikes run in their top class along with the 750cc side-valve bikes the American Harley Davidson and Indian companies produced.
    In the USA the 88ss had to run against BSA Goldstars and A50s, Triumph unit T100s and Harley KR750 racers. All formidable opponents especially as Harley, Triumph and BSA had much deeper pockets and larger organizations in the states which let them hire the top riding talents of the period.

    If anyone has any more photos or information on the accomplishments of Norton 88ss and 650ss bikes in this or other production-based racing lets have them......!

    [​IMG]

    88ss:

    [​IMG]

    This 1961 AJS 650 finished 15th in the 1962 Thruxton:

    [​IMG]
     
  8. acotrel

    acotrel

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2012
    I think that is the 650CSR, the model on which all the old problems were fixed. The New South Wales police had them in 1963.
     
  9. beng

    beng

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Yep, it is a CSR. I am pretty sure that by 61' they had the nodular crankshafts, and from what I read about the above Ajay it is still running on it's original crank, pretty good for having competed in endurance road races for thousands of miles at over 120mph. This was a one-owner bike that was recently auctioned off by Bonham's. My old man was a Matchless dealer, he is still kicking and he has a 63 G12csr we are supposed to try and start up when the weather breaks after he had the engine all apart for a look and back together. Beautiful bikes, rare bikes, and they can be very competent in the right hands with good maintenance.
     
  10. acotrel

    acotrel

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2012
    The G45 Matchless was probably the fifties British racer with the most potential. A friend of mine fixed the cam follower problem by using followers from a 650CSR. Some of the guys around here are building replicas using Yamaha XS650 crankshafts, so the drive side oiling problem with the centre bearing is under control. I'd really love to own a 650CSR, they were really good but few were ever sold in Australia. I think a good 500cc version would give a molnar manx a big fright.
     
  11. Bernhard

    Bernhard

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    They probably run the 2 strokes with extra piston/bore otherwise known as race clearance, a bigger ring gap and a mixture of Castrol R in the gas tank. T being air cooled, they would have still suffered the odd engine seizure
     
  12. SteveA

    SteveA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Alan, you might understand Waynes lines at Goodwood more if you had been lucky enough to have ridden the place! Ireckon he knows exactly where to be...so that would be the racing line then!

    I have driven it in at least 3 cars, a RWD Alfa, an Escort Mexico and a tuned V8 MGB....the place looks straightforward, but it is not...it is very fast, especially the run from Madgewick to Fordwater, and the 'Right Hander before St Marys' as it is always called where Moss crashed in '61....it has 3 double apex bends and those lines do not end up where you expect them to be....and its a lot about placing yourself for something else...

    I had the pleasure in the Alfa of running with a gnarly old race instrcutor, once he had talked me out ot the traditional lines we ran a gear higher through some of them....with the inner front wheel aviated!

    I also drove a stage rally there in the Escort, unfortunately it ran in reverse direction and had chicanes....good fun in itself, but no chance to get up to a good speed....best fun by far was the V8, only about 250hp, but set up extremely well...
     
  13. acotrel

    acotrel

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2012
  14. Bernhard

    Bernhard

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    A Tom Kirby entered 650CSR ridden by Paddy Driver and Joe Dunphy won the Silverstone “1000” in 1963 beating the Norton’s 650SS.

    http://www.vintagebike.co.uk/pictures/t ... dy-driver/

    why is there so little about the Silverstone “1000” endurance race on the internet :?:
     
  15. Metalarts

    Metalarts

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Do you have contact information for the people using the xs650 cranks in the G9? I'm interested in this idea as a way to replace broken cranks here in the States.
    Les Brown
     
  16. acotrel

    acotrel

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2012
    Ken Lucas in Wangaratta, Australia. I believe the problems with the fifties twin Matchless was related to keeping pressure to the driveside crankshaft bigend. Also the rods used to have a hole to test whether they had stretched by inserting a ground pin, and used to break at the hole. A roller bearing crank such as from an XS650 requires much less oil, and the rods are made of steel. Somebody from this forum once asked me about a foundry in Queensland which is making G45 barrels and heads . If you could get the top end that looks correct , it would be a great motor to play with.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Matt Spencer

    Matt Spencer

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
    The square cams & triple valve springs had a tendancy ( certainty ) to break the rocker shaft posts of the cylinder head , if ridden in anger .
    The dimensions being the same as the Iron Head . Maybe later alloy ones were strengthened there . Modern Valve Spring tecnology would ease
    all that .

    Capeable of being sorted , but as a off the shelf racer a bit of a disaster . The G - 50 being a lot less bother . Most were converted o singles .
     
  18. Matt Spencer

    Matt Spencer

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
    Closer to the Road Machine , back then ? note the ' swan neck ' clip-on bars .

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Bernhard

    Bernhard

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Hailwood wins 1965 Hutchinson 100 Production race at Silverstone;

    World motorcycle champion Mike Hailwood won the 1965 Hutchinson 100 Production race at the Silverstone racecourse on a BSA Lightning Clubman in heavy rain, beating the Triumph Racing Team's Bonnevilles.[2] The 'Hutch' was the main production race of the season, so it was very important to manufacturers to establish the racing credentials of their latest range. Triumph Bonnevilles were ridden by World Champion Phil Read and ex works rider Percy Tait. BSA Lightning Clubmans were ridden by Grand Prix champion Hailwood (with a large number 1 on the fairing) and factory rider Tony Smith. Conditions were poor and Smith was out of the race at slippery Stowe Corner. With little regard for the rain Hailwood was achieving laps of 83 mph to establish his winning lead.
    Ref;

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSA_Lightning_Clubman
     
  20. beng

    beng

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    How about some more photos of actual production racers at Thruxton in 1962 or of that specific era? I am sure that G45s and Manx Nortons were not allowed in races for roadsters.....
     

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