Suzuki GT550 kicker as a substitute for the no longer available RGM made T-160 style.

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tinkertoy

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After going dizzy trying to track down down one of the RGM kickstart levers I ran across a passing reference on this site to using a Suzuki GT550 kicker as a substitute. I am exploring alternatives since I was told RGM “lost” the dies for that part and they are NLA.
I have ordered a new Suzuki part off of EBay for about $40. to find out if this is really a viable alternative. The Suzuki part has the necessary folding knuckle at the clamp and a bend that looks very similar to the RGM unit. I will see if the splines work and if the bend is workable but expect some torch bending might be required so the shaft will then have to be ground epoxy primed and painted.
Does anyone here have any information on this or thoughts on improvements for the stupid Norton calf scratcher?
 
I took 2 banana style ones that I had, cut them both and welded one back together as a 1.25" longer banana style one. One of them had badly damaged splines so it was going to the bin anyway. The remaining longer one has been on there for a few seasons. I think the math said it had not quite 20% more leverage with it's extra length. Visually, it's hardly noticeable on the bike. Eventually, you get used to it and kicking still can feel pretty stiff.. I'm 6'1" and 220lbs, so not a small person. I have the boyer micro digital, and amal 930's with removed chokes (early 750) I got sick of kickbacks, so eventually I retarded my ignition 2 degrees also after making the longer kickstart didn't completely eliminate kickback. I think it feels a little less peppy at low rpm's, but it doesn't kick back any more and with the longer kicker, It's just a little easier to start.... I'm not racing anywhere, so I don't care if it's retarded a bit... It's not like another norton guy could get on my bike and be able to tell the bike's timing is 29 instead of 31 degrees...
Anyway, kickstarter wise there's more than one way to skin that cat...

I still have the jig I made to hold the 2 kick lever pieces so the pedal stop would be correctly oriented...
 
o0norton0o said:
I took 2 banana style ones that I had, cut them both and welded one back together as a 1.25" longer banana style one. One of them had badly damaged splines so it was going to the bin anyway. The remaining longer one has been on there for a few seasons. I think the math said it had not quite 20% more leverage with it's extra length. Visually, it's hardly noticeable on the bike. Eventually, you get used to it and kicking still can feel pretty stiff.. I'm 6'1" and 220lbs, so not a small person. I have the boyer micro digital, and amal 930's with removed chokes (early 750) I got sick of kickbacks, so eventually I retarded my ignition 2 degrees also after making the longer kickstart didn't completely eliminate kickback. I think it feels a little less peppy at low rpm's, but it doesn't kick back any more and with the longer kicker, It's just a little easier to start.... I'm not racing anywhere, so I don't care if it's retarded a bit... It's not like another norton guy could get on my bike and be able to tell the bike's timing is 29 instead of 31 degrees...
Anyway, kickstarter wise there's more than one way to skin that cat...

I still have the jig I made to hold the 2 kick lever pieces so the pedal stop would be correctly oriented...
Click to expand...
Thanks for your experience with this. Maybe I’m not crazy to make my own. I will make the new shaft as long as it can be and still function and not look crazy. The big take-away for me from your comments is to retard the ignition 2 degrees. I weigh 135 lbs and still have my fully functioning knees (don’t think ANY) of my friends my age can say that). I am a big cat lover so no plans to skin one when I can spoil them to death. Apparently more than one way to kick over a long stroke vertical twin! Cheers.
 
kokomoto said:
I was able to buy a new folding kickstart from RGM a few months ago. Are they unavailable again already?
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The information on RGM “loosing” the dies to make their kickers came from a gentleman at Zenor’s Norton, an old time Norton Parts supplier. He left me on hold to check on my request and came back with that nugget, I took it at face value so can not confirm it is correct. I believe the RGM kickers were going for about $300. so inclined to take oOnortonOo’s approach. I am going to get a skilled welder for that job if it requires cutting and welding. Wish me luck!
 
Where are you located? I still have my jig. It holds the boss to stop the pedal at the correct angle so the welder can start the weld with the arm in the correct position.
 
I have a 750 Honda foldaway kickstart on my rocket 3
I just used the bsa kickstart cotter pin centre and welded it to the honda centre
You could do the same with a Norton or if you wanted to be really trick you could machine the honda spline to match the Norton one
 

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RGM kickstarters are available again. I can see how modifying others can be an attractive idea howeverI wouldn't want to be cutting and welding purely from the aspect of getting it rechromed. The cost of chroming here in NZ would be more than the cost of a new RGM, don't know what it's like elsewhere.
 
cliffa said:
Niiiiice with a capital N!!

Who made the pipes baz?
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The pipes are hurricane pattern down pipes that I have extended 40mm at the head
Because the triple engine sits further back in the oil in frame
The megas are just cheap ones off eBay
It's pretty loud and very free revving
 
o0norton0o said:
Where are you located? I still have my jig. It holds the boss to stop the pedal at the correct angle so the welder can start the weld with the arm in the correct position.
Click to expand...
Hi, thanks for the offer. I am located in Southern Utah, about as rural as you can get so not sure if shipping something such as your jig is a practical for you but more than willing to pay for postage and your trouble. Still don’t have a clear picture in my mind how this should come together. Is it Norton splined clamp welded to new knuckle and arm?
 
Dedubyah said:
RGM kickstarters are available again. I can see how modifying others can be an attractive idea however I wouldn't want to be cutting and welding purely from the aspect of getting it rechromed. The cost of chroming here in NZ would be more than the cost of a new RGM, don't know what it's like elsewhere.
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I didn't even bother to rechrome it... My bike is barely even a Norton by collector standards anyway.
 
tinkertoy said:
Hi, thanks for the offer. I am located in Southern Utah, about as rural as you can get so not sure if shipping something such as your jig is a practical for you but more than willing to pay for postage and your trouble. Still don’t have a clear picture in my mind how this should come together. Is it Norton splined clamp welded to new knuckle and arm?
Click to expand...
No, I had an old kicker who's splines were "shot" that I had replaced with a new kicker (both the banana shaped because I have dunstall exhausts and they need the extra clearance of the banana shape ones) I cut the new one and cut the old one in a different spot, so the welding would give me a longer kicker with a good splined knuckle.. Honestly, It's not a process for the faint of heart for a lot of reasons, and I don't think for somewhere less than 20% more leverage it makes all that much difference. It also requires a leap of faith of cutting 2 kickers to make 1 🤞

Here's what it looks like. You can see it's a little rough from grinding...

longer kicker1.jpg



That's why I also retarded the timing and I think that the retarding of the timing did more to make it easier to kick over than the longer kicker... When your timing is advanced, the spark creates the expansion pressure before you can get the piston to TDC. By retarding it a little bit, your kick isn't fighting the early combustion pressure as much when you kick it... at least that's my theory...

You can't really tell that it's longer to look at the bike

long kickstart lever1.jpg
 
Last edited:
baz said:
I have a 750 Honda foldaway kickstart on my rocket 3
I just used the bsa kickstart cotter pin centre and welded it to the honda centre
You could do the same with a Norton or if you wanted to be really trick you could machine the honda spline to match the Norton one
Click to expand...
I am a bit of a perfectionist so how this abortion ends up looking will determine if I use it in the end. The primary case cover and transmit will be painted gloss black so a black kicker arm may look OK.

The bodywork on your bike looks positively modern, really interesting model. I have never seen one in the flesh. How does it ride!
 
tinkertoy said:
I am a bit of a perfectionist so how this abortion ends up looking will determine if I use it in the end. The primary case cover and transmit will be painted gloss black so a black kicker arm may look OK.

The bodywork on your bike looks positively modern, really interesting model. I have never seen one in the flesh. How does it ride!
Click to expand...
The bike rides absolutely perfect
Since that photo I have fitted a 5 speed gear cluster and a hydraulic clutch and an electric starter
So I don't really need the kickstart anymore
The bodywork is copy of a triumph hurricane designed around 1969
But obviously my bike is an oil in frame made for a twin triumph or BSA
It handles better than my stock t160
 

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