Starting date for 850 Production

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lincolnmd

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Hoping someone can point me in the right direction to determine when 850s first went into production. I have a '73 850, serial number 301160 with a production date listed as 3/1973 on the head tag. I've heard others say that 850 production did not begin until April of 73. Any ideas?

Thanks
 
lincolnmd said:
Hoping someone can point me in the right direction to determine when 850s first went into production. I have a '73 850, serial number 301160 with a production date listed as 3/1973 on the head tag. I've heard others say that 850 production did not begin until April of 73. Any ideas?
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I think the official date was March, however the actual start of production could have been earlier than that.
 
Interesting, I have an Engine number 302007, which is matched on the frame plate, with a Manufactured date of Dec 1972. I t was first registered Jan 1973.
 
Does it have a nice shiny new VIN plate ? :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

We notice in your credits you list it as a Mk 2, which has to be somewhat inaccurate ?!!
 
Rohan said:
Does it have a nice shiny new VIN plate ? :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

We notice in your credits you list it as a Mk 2, which has to be somewhat inaccurate ?!!
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LoL, it will indeed have a new plate soon, how did you deduce that, have you a Crystal ball to consult! :D

Mk1? You are without doubt correct, based on the date, I should change that.

I should really do my homework, what denotes the change from Mk1 to M2 to Mk2a etc. My bike, like many after 40 years of owner modifications, is a bit of a mongrel. Twas a cafe racer when I got it so it's not even clear what model it was when it left the factory, possibly an interstate?

LAB- I've a piccie of the original VIN plate if it's of any worth posting?
 
Rohan said:
Does it have a nice shiny new VIN plate ? :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

We notice in your credits you list it as a Mk 2, which has to be somewhat inaccurate ?!!
Click to expand...

Original VIN plate for me. Mine is a two owner bike that my father purchased new in June of 73. After 10 years of asking, he finally gave it to me two years ago. I have the original title, plates, owner manual, etc. I am trying to document as much history as possible, but records are hard to come by.
 
Old Bloke said:
I should really do my homework, what denotes the change from Mk1 to M2 to Mk2a etc.?
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Main points

850 Mk1 = 300000 Peashooter exhausts, perforated metal airbox.
850 Mk1A = 306591 Low noise emission model for the "European" market, Annular discharge "Black cap" (or "Bean can") silencers, black plastic airbox, different battery tray and L/H side panel mounting arrangement (due to airbox), and higher second gear ratio. Mk1 continued to be sold in USA/Canada.

Mk2/Mk2A 307311 = Slightly updated versions of the Mk1 and 1A models, both types produced concurrently for different markets, as a general rule Mk2s mainly going to the USA, however some 2As were also sent to the USA.


Old Bloke said:
LAB- I've a piccie of the original VIN plate if it's of any worth posting?
Click to expand...

Yes, please do.
 
Mk2/Mk2A 307311 = Slightly updated versions of the Mk1 and 1A models, both types produced concurrently for different markets, as a general rule Mk2s mainly going to the USA, however some 2As were also sent to the USA.

The Mk 2 came to NZ as well. (I have one, sold new in Wellington NZ Sept 1975, with a June July 1974 engine number 319***. I have owned it 35 years and I'm the third owner)

I have never seen a Mk2A here that was not a latter USA import.
 
Numbers 300.000 through 300.021 bar # 300.014 which went to Berliner/USA were booked to Experimental, starting 25-10-72, against some it says "No Date", next date is 4-2-73, but #300.020 went to Bob Trigg on 23-1-73.
The regular despatches start with 300.022 produced on 22-1-73 to Berliner and real production then started on 24-1-73.
The bikes from the experimental Dept. were partly sold on later- ##s 300.007 to NV Canada, 300.009 to NV Sydney, 300.010-.013 to NVC California, .014 to Berliner again, .015 to California, and .018-.020 to Berliner, .021 to NVC California.

Most of the early production ones also went to NVC California and Berliner.

Joe/Andover Norton
 
Thanks for posting that, Joe. I really enjoy this sort of information from primary sources. It cuts through lots of the guesswork published over the last forty years. Does anyone know if these ex-Experimental Dept. numbered machines were rebuilt as new or sent as used demonstrators ? I'm surprised that it was considered worth the cost of shipping them or were they unable to meet demand otherwise ?
 
I suspect they were used as press bikes and demonstrators after the Experimental Dept was through with them.

We (Norton Motors GmbH) ran the prototype Norton F1Sports as a demonstrator/press bike for a while in 1992 before we sold it on, months later.

By the way- #300321 was off the track on 9-2-73, tested 10-2-73, packed 15-2-73, dispatched to Berliner 14-2-73, colour black(!). note the error of the packing and despatch dates- unless it was packed under way.......
 
Joe,
Is there any apparent evidence to show that batches were made out of numerical order, being as Old Bloke has 302007 with a Dec '72 date stamp?

Going back to lincolnmd's original question, I think perhaps "Start of production" and "Official model release" dates have perhaps become muddled over the years.
 
Les,
seems pretty chronological. They were built in batches and, say, batch 1190B ##s 303880- 303896 were built 4-6-73 and 5-6-73, but numerically come between ##s 303877 (batch 1173, produced 16-5-73) and 303897 (again batch 1173, produced 10-5-73). So, strictly speaking, they are about right, but not one number left the track accurately after the previous one.

#302007 has a note "Andover" against it, was off track on 28-3-73, but has no details on "passed test/packed/despatched/destination". How it got labelled as Dec.72 I have no idea- it wasn't even built then!

Unfortunately, the book ends at 305540, with some late 750 thrown in (some 221.000s and some 230.000s). The comes a gap with some numbers in obscure notes until the Mk3 which, I think, I have complete. No, I cannot veryfy 850Mk2As as JPNs! I have no 850Mk2 info.

Joe
 
L.A.B. said:
Going back to lincolnmd's original question, I think perhaps "Start of production" and "Official model release" dates have perhaps become muddled over the years.
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L.A.B - Well stated.

Joe do you have any details on 301160?
 
Thanks, Joe. As usual we seem to end up with more questions than answers. :wink:
 
I have 301657 4/73 which came as a roadster with steel tank and fibreglass side covers.
 
L.A.B. said:
Thanks, Joe. As usual we seem to end up with more questions than answers. :wink:
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After years of studying the pre-war Norton records and the War Department contracts relating to the WD Nortons, I've come to realise that every correct answer gives rise to at least two new questions. Any that don't are probably wrong.

In terms of launch dates, the first mention in the UK press that I can find of the 850 is in 'Motor Cycle' for the week ending 10th March 1973. The article is headed 'Andover's Big Secret' and goes on '....As soon as enthusiasts learn that the eight-fifty Norton is a fact and not just a rumour...' so it would seem that little was known before March of that year. It was timed at 121 MPH which thinking about it and remembering my usual cynicism is probably why these bikes went to the Experimental Department before the press...They only got 42 miles per imperial gallon out of it so they must've thrashed the poor thing.

Photo reproduction is not adequate to view the engine number although if the originals survive in an archive then they probably could be viewed.

There is an interesting piece about the forthcoming production of the short stroke 750 engine which I'll scan and post on the relevant thread.
 
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