Starting after 32 years ....

Krazymummy · Oct 3, 2013

New to the site and new to owning a Norton ..

Hey everyone ! I'm a new owner of a "72 Norton Commando Combat " that I received as the result of a trade (some work for the bike) .
It needs to be completely redone , but I was told it ran when it was ...... retired ? Should I say ? ... Anyway , I plan on a complete disassembly and rebuild .. So.. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions in the time to come .. I have read some of the post (well really a lot of them over the last week ).. I believe this is where I need to be for the proper guidance in my quest to resurrect this icon of a bike . So as it sits is as I got it .. last inspection was in NJ USA ( 80 - 81 ) 32 years ago ..
That is the only indication I have as to the possible last time it ran ... I will be trying to get it started this week or next . I'm told it will start .. It needs a few things first :roll:
Any advice from experience with this situation would help a ton ... Thanks

Barney

Krazymummy · Oct 3, 2013

So far I have the Fiberglass/GRP tank off and began cleaning it out .. It had gas in it , but I'm thinking gas from the early 80s and the tank may be usable after sealing .. Any thoughts on this ?
Also the SINGLE Mikuni carb was in a bag and looks like its in bad shape .. I will try and rebuild it , but like I said it looks like it in bad shape .. Any input on the carb ? I will post pics when I can , but for now the numbers off the carb mean nothing to me .. This is what is on the carb body :[MIKUNI KOGYO] - H 9 -[ 34F 48] JAPAN - MIC .... I'm thinking the (34 F) = 34mm ?

mikegray660 · Oct 3, 2013

barney
welcome - do a search on fiberglass tank sealing - i personally think its really a sort of delaying the inevitable tank replacement, but it you just want to get bike going its an option . Any yes its a mik 34mm-standard carb for a single setup - depending upon the bore/slide and if the passages are clear (or can be cleared)fit its probably serviceable and parts are fairly cheap

have fun with the bike -

Krazymummy said:
So far I have the Fiberglass/GRP tank off and began cleaning it out .. It had gas in it , but I'm thinking gas from the early 80s and the tank may be usable after sealing .. Any thoughts on this ?
Also the SINGLE Mikuni carb was in a bag and looks like its in bad shape .. I will try and rebuild it , but like I said it looks like it in bad shape .. Any input on the carb ? I will post pics when I can , but for now the numbers off the carb mean nothing to me .. This is what is on the carb body :[MIKUNI KOGYO] - H 9 -[ 34F 48] JAPAN - MIC .... I'm thinking the (34 F) = 34mm ?

Torontonian · Oct 3, 2013

Oh boy a project.

Sure you can coat that tank but your long term plan might be to find metal replacement should you plan to drive her vs. hide it away in a collection. A single carb 34 Mikuni is good too ,there are many carb choices out here. I tell all new owners to change the layshaft bearing in the gearbox. You will need a few special tools. Take a camera and photodocument alot before you start tearing apart. Decide how you want your bike to look like in the end now that way you know your path . Like the colours ,do you want the chopper look or sell those things off to buy your look. Will follow , Peter.

Hobot · Oct 3, 2013

Its a Combat that could well start and run and shift fine as is but could have dangerous stress riser pistons and Al head gasket and blow up just tooling along easy in 50's mph like mine did on 3rd wk of careful operation on unknown new unattended to for a decade+ Combat. The front brake kit likely rusted to trash in side and similar to forks rusted mud inside. One jug bore with the open valves at rest may be rusted to crap too so living dangerously to even turn over after so long a storage. That seat will endear you with the Harley guys and gals but will have eggs thrown at it by most the Norton owners around here along with the fat ass rear wheel. Wiring connectors likely decayed to crumble state and points adv. likely too worn to idle. But heck if ya ride then you are a committed risk taker and all parts that may fail are available so your call how lucky do ya feel punk. Its worthwhile to track down the article on the history of The Combat Bomb and list of things to correct, then its my and others favorite model to run the snot out of and surprise moderns on its performance up to 120 mph or so. Looks like at least a $3-4000 mininum recovery = restoration project. Oh yeah suspect wheel and stem bearings turning to fossils. Its does take a village and global range of vendors to get a Commando spiffed up around its quaint complexly simple quirks. Plenty faster and better handling less maintaince cycles everywhere but none of them can give such satisfactions to ride and share flash back joys with all that encounter and track ya down to tell-show ya how it affects them too.

rx7171 · Oct 3, 2013

Welcome.

I bought my 72 bike with a similar story 5 years ago. Sat for 30 years, with some rust although maybe not quite as much as yours.

Running when parked sounds pretty good, but why not run after that? You may find a long waiting problem as you go in. Mine had lost a valve adjuster down the pushrod tunnel and rattled like crazy. Ran yes, well no.

)

Stuff I did. Others will have done more. Depending on condition of what you find may do more or less.
There are threads on most of these on this site. Get factory shop and parts manuals. Visit OldBritts site for parts and tutorials.
Disassembled engine down to crank. Inspect everything carefully.
Confirmed main bearings Superblends. Old original non Superblends have 11 rollers.
Had a shop overhaul head. New valves, guides, springs, oil seals on intake valves.
New pistons/rings since mine were the oil slotted type prone to losing tops.
Mine was Combat spec which I wanted to detune so I installed new standard cam ($75 on EBay !!), had old EBay lifters resurfaced.
Installed spacer gasket under barrel to lower compression ration. OldBritts.
Recently replaced Layshaft gearbox bearing with high performance ball bearing Mick Hemmings recommends. Lots of threads on this.
Replaced wheel bearings with sealed ones.
Rebuilt disc brakes at disk and master cylinder. Many re-sleave master for better performance, but I found AP Racing pads from Commando Specialties work much better than stock. New rear brake shoes in turned drum.
Replaced Amals with new Mikuni VM 34mm (like yours) for ease of starting and ease of maintenance and tuning.
Replaced points ignition with Pazon Sure Fire electronic. Straight forward and makes for easy starting, never going out of tune.
New wiring harness.
Podtronics rectifier to replacer Zener Diode.
Rebuilt handlebar switch sets.
New fork stancions, seals etc.
Cleaned clutch plates.
Clutch rod end seal.
Extra spacer disc from OldBritts to make clutch pull a two finger.
Higher powered tail and pilot light bulbs for daytime riding safety. 120 w charging system is marginal if full headlight on during daytime riding.
New silencers and headers from Commando Specialties. Not expesnsive and have held up well for me.
New paint I did myself!! Pretty proud of that.
New tires
Lots of Mothers Aluminum Polish and chrome polish.
Replacing many bolts and screws with stainless.
Quite a few corroded parts I replaced with finds on EBay.
Other stuff I've forgotten.

Lots of fun and some head scratchers but feel free to ask this board questions along the way. Pictures help a lot.
Photograph very carefully everything as you take apart. Very useful during reassembly.
Good luck

rick in seattle · Oct 3, 2013

I envy your new project.

You can rebuild your bike as a Combat, which will come alive above 5000 rpm, or you can enjoy the reliable operation of the Mikuni, but you can't do both. The VM34 simply cannot deliver enough fuel to support the higher horsepower range, and runs out of grunt at 5000 rpm. If you want a fun, reliable, good-handling, torquey ride, then follow rx7171's excellent advice and detune the bike a bit. It won't be a Combat, but you got the front disk brake for free. Steve's got it right on the wheels as well; stick to the original 19" WM2 skinny tire in front, and either match it in the rear, or at most go to an 18" WM3 slightly wider tire that matches the front's rolling diameter. You'll like the handling.

BTW, the low-angle silencers are not classically Commando roadster, and result from flipping the silencer support plates, either inside-to-outside or left-to-right. This will lift the silencer ends 2" or so.

Treat her well; she's had a hard life.

Hobot · Oct 3, 2013

I had the fastest performance out my Peel Combat with single 34 miki carb even w/o the UFO flow increaser kit. The dual 32 Amals had more grunt/spunk down low to 60 mph in 2nd but then the 34 Miki out pulled them and 15+ mph mo top end. So I had my cake and ate sports bikes with it too up to 90 mph then neck neck till over 120+. Basically a factory Combat is already dang potent from way down low to over the ton I'd just stick to factory numbered parts and stick in aftermarket ignition and send me the points and adv. leftovers. 2S cam really comes on in upper 6000's so just find out what rpm factory valves float in your case and stay below that on run ups and shop for rear tires to keep in supply. I've ridden with many over powered cyclers to find hardly any of em will actually use their excess power to accelerate harder or as long as a factory Combat so only the most crazy and competent will be unable to keep up with fast but sane glees.

Krazymummy · Oct 3, 2013

mikegray660 said:
welcome - do a search on fiberglass tank sealing - i personally think its really a sort of delaying the inevitable tank replacement, but it you just want to get bike going its an option .

Hi Mike thanks for the welcome and reply.. I did do a search pertaining to the tank and after reading some of the post and checking out some of the products I decided to go with the "Caswell" sealer . I've read both good and bad results from trying to seal the glass tanks , but I'm leaning toward having a good out come .. I will always have my eyes open for an original steel tank at the right price..

Torontonian said:
Decide how you want your bike to look like in the end now that way you know your path

Hey Peter , Thanks for the input .. I know just how I would like it to look when its done , The only thing I'm really undecided on is the handlebars . I don't like them high up so they will be lower just not to low or my demons will reappear :twisted: . The rest Black , chrome and Gold leaf ..... May be some maroon some where ..If I have painted Fenders .. Well Hell I guess its all still up in the air ...

hobot said:
Its a Combat that could well start and run and shift fine as is but could have dangerous stress riser pistons and Al head gasket and blow up just tooling along easy in 50's mph like mine did on 3rd wk of careful operation on unknown new unattended to for a decade+ Combat.

HI Hobot , thanks for the reply and the heads up . That's why I'm here .. I really wasn't going to try and get it started at first, I was just going to dive in and tear it down . I am curious now to see if it will start though . I wouldn't be riding it till its right ... I'll be doing every thing I can on it myself save any Machine work that needs to be sent out .

rx7171 thanks for the reply and list .. Good reference to start with . Thanks

rx7171 said:
Running when parked sounds pretty good, but why not run after that?

I think there was some Jail time involved ..a Brother held on to it in his garage and at some point wanted it gone , so it was sold to the fellow that I got it from which also held on to it in his storage.

rick in seattle said:
If you want a fun, reliable, good-handling, torquey ride, then follow rx7171's excellent advice and detune the bike a bit.

Rick thanks for the reply and your input .. I have nothing written in stone yet so all is up in the air .. With that said I have started to look into the problems with the Combat and have strong hopes that I can overcome them with the help of all the info on this board and available upgrades .. I really don't want to "detune the bike" if I can help it ... It just isn't in my blood ...I'll do what I have to do though ...

rick in seattle said:
BTW, the low-angle silencers are not classically Commando roadster, and result from flipping the silencer support plates, either inside-to-outside or left-to-right. This will lift the silencer ends 2" or so.

Those silencers have been eating up a lot of my time trying to find out what the hell happened there .. Thank you !!

hobot said:
I had the fastest performance out my Peel Combat with single 34 miki carb even w/o the UFO flow increaser kit.

hobot , so in your opinion the 34 miki carb is the way to go ? With a factory 72 combat ? I ask this so soon because if the carb I have (34 miki) is in bad shape I may need to get one right off the bat if I do start it before the tear down.

Hobot · Oct 3, 2013

Amals look right-better with their rounded pair of bowls hanging down but need more attention on fasteners and upgrades if shot. Miki carb looks after market Japanese but offers some better performance and low maintenance. I had my best times flight wise with the single Miki on Ms Peel but I'm sworn off em now as unless ya modify so much else any extra power just gets ya into trouble faster. Amals with some minor upgrads like anodized slides can last and work a treat. Amals gave me more low down response but didn't have the upper end power the Miki did in Peels set up. If ya already got a Miki and filter and cable kit then that's what I'd start with and so common now its as accepted as replacements for the points system.

In case ya ain't ridden a factory Combat they are as practically fast as any cycle up to the ton+ right out the box but to make em race level tolerant means taking most the Norton out of them. My ride buddy Wesley had his '71 for 30+yr now and has never dealt with the head or opened tranny or replaced anything in primary in many 10's of 1000's of miles but has had to re-ring bore a few times and only once last year put new rod shells in as he ran it til it seized . Never had iso's apart - just slips in a 1/4" washer to take up slack till worn out again. Never bothered with swing arm bushes so it sways like 1/2" side to side. He has Miki 34 with UFO kit and is a terror to follow when in a mood even with his poor drum brake.

So what the heck try to get it going but realize may be uncomfortable and dangerous handler but hey no guts no stories. If ya ride that's proof enough to me you are not fully sane, so make the best of it while ya can.

rx7171 · Oct 3, 2013

rx7171 said:
Welcome.

I bought my 72 bike with a similar story 5 years ago. Sat for 30 years, with some rust although maybe not quite as much as yours.

Running when parked sounds pretty good, but why not run after that? You may find a long waiting problem as you go in. Mine had lost a valve adjuster down the pushrod tunnel and rattled like crazy. Ran yes, well no. )

Stuff I did. Others will have done more. Depending on condition of what you find may do more or less.
There are threads on most of these on this site. Get factory shop and parts manuals. Visit OldBritts site for parts and tutorials.
Disassembled engine down to crank. Inspect everything carefully.
Confirmed main bearings Superblends. Old original non Superblends have 11 rollers.
Had a shop overhaul head. New valves, guides, springs, oil seals on intake valves.
New pistons/rings since mine were the oil slotted type prone to losing tops.
Mine was Combat spec which I wanted to detune so I installed new standard cam ($75 on EBay !!), had old EBay lifters resurfaced.
Installed spacer gasket under barrel to lower compression ration. OldBritts.
Recently replaced Layshaft gearbox bearing with high performance ball bearing Mick Hemmings recommends. Lots of threads on this.
Replaced wheel bearings with sealed ones.
Rebuilt disc brakes at disk and master cylinder. Many re-sleave master for better performance, but I found AP Racing pads from Commando Specialties work much better than stock. New rear brake shoes in turned drum.
Replaced Amals with new Mikuni VM 34mm (like yours) for ease of starting and ease of maintenance and tuning.
Replaced points ignition with Pazon Sure Fire electronic. Straight forward and makes for easy starting, never going out of tune.
New wiring harness.
Podtronics rectifier to replacer Zener Diode.
Rebuilt handlebar switch sets.
New fork stancions, seals etc.
Cleaned clutch plates.
Clutch rod end seal.
Extra spacer disc from OldBritts to make clutch pull a two finger.
Higher powered tail and pilot light bulbs for daytime riding safety. 120 w charging system is marginal if full headlight on during daytime riding.
New silencers and headers from Commando Specialties. Not expesnsive and have held up well for me.
New paint I did myself!! Pretty proud of that.
New tires
Lots of Mothers Aluminum Polish and chrome polish.
Replacing many bolts and screws with stainless.
Quite a few corroded parts I replaced with finds on EBay.
Other stuff I've forgotten.

Lots of fun and some head scratchers but feel free to ask this board questions along the way. Pictures help a lot.
Photograph very carefully everything as you take apart. Very useful during reassembly.
Good luck

Man there's even more

New iso rubbers.
New rear shocks.
Mikes SX650 reed breather valve for controlling crankcase pressure and with it misc oil leaks.
Replaced 19 tooth trans sprocket with 21 tooth for better cruising comfort.
Cable setup to allow "choking" (enricher) of Mikuni using Amal bar mounted lever.
When rebuilding disc brake used stainless pistons.
Hirsch tank lining of my steel tank.
All new cables including Venhill teflon lined clutch cable.
Dave Taylor head steady.

Some of what I did was really optional and what you do should be based on what you want the bike for and how many miles you think you'll put on it.

rx7171 · Oct 3, 2013

Check out the rear swing arm for side to side looseness since bushes may need replacing.
Lubricating with 140W Oil was often not followed, especially when some folks assumed zerk fitting was for pumping in grease. A real no no.
Sintered bronze bushes are porous enough to absorb and retain oil, but grease not equal. If grease used disassembly to clean required and by the time you've got it appart new bushes are cheap.
My Combat didn't come with an oil filter so added filter kit used on later models. OldBritts and others have it.
There are various opinions on the right motor oil however these engines were designed when oil had a high zinc content for flat lifters but modern engines had pollution systems that couldn't tolerate zinc so is mostly gone from your standard auto oils. Other specialty oils have zinc including those intended for diesals but the one I use is Mobil 1 V-Twin 50-20 synthetic with the zinc recommended for air cooled cycle engines.

Lots of work ahead, some will be fun, some will be frustrating but when you park your bike where other bikers hang out you'll get a kick out of all the positive attention it will get, especially when you do what real men do, kick it to life.

Bob

pierodn · Oct 4, 2013

rx7171 said:
rx7171 said:

Welcome.

I bought my 72 bike with a similar story 5 years ago. Sat for 30 years, with some rust although maybe not quite as much as yours.

Running when parked sounds pretty good, but why not run after that? You may find a long waiting problem as you go in. Mine had lost a valve adjuster down the pushrod tunnel and rattled like crazy. Ran yes, well no. )

Stuff I did. Others will have done more. Depending on condition of what you find may do more or less.
There are threads on most of these on this site. Get factory shop and parts manuals. Visit OldBritts site for parts and tutorials.
Disassembled engine down to crank. Inspect everything carefully.
Confirmed main bearings Superblends. Old original non Superblends have 11 rollers.
Had a shop overhaul head. New valves, guides, springs, oil seals on intake valves.
New pistons/rings since mine were the oil slotted type prone to losing tops.
Mine was Combat spec which I wanted to detune so I installed new standard cam ($75 on EBay !!), had old EBay lifters resurfaced.
Installed spacer gasket under barrel to lower compression ration. OldBritts.
Recently replaced Layshaft gearbox bearing with high performance ball bearing Mick Hemmings recommends. Lots of threads on this.
Replaced wheel bearings with sealed ones.
Rebuilt disc brakes at disk and master cylinder. Many re-sleave master for better performance, but I found AP Racing pads from Commando Specialties work much better than stock. New rear brake shoes in turned drum.
Replaced Amals with new Mikuni VM 34mm (like yours) for ease of starting and ease of maintenance and tuning.
Replaced points ignition with Pazon Sure Fire electronic. Straight forward and makes for easy starting, never going out of tune.
New wiring harness.
Podtronics rectifier to replacer Zener Diode.
Rebuilt handlebar switch sets.
New fork stancions, seals etc.
Cleaned clutch plates.
Clutch rod end seal.
Extra spacer disc from OldBritts to make clutch pull a two finger.
Higher powered tail and pilot light bulbs for daytime riding safety. 120 w charging system is marginal if full headlight on during daytime riding.
New silencers and headers from Commando Specialties. Not expesnsive and have held up well for me.
New paint I did myself!! Pretty proud of that.
New tires
Lots of Mothers Aluminum Polish and chrome polish.
Replacing many bolts and screws with stainless.
Quite a few corroded parts I replaced with finds on EBay.
Other stuff I've forgotten.

Lots of fun and some head scratchers but feel free to ask this board questions along the way. Pictures help a lot.
Photograph very carefully everything as you take apart. Very useful during reassembly.
Good luck

Click to expand...

Man there's even more

New iso rubbers.
New rear shocks.
Mikes SX650 reed breather valve for controlling crankcase pressure and with it misc oil leaks.
Replaced 19 tooth trans sprocket with 21 tooth for better cruising comfort.
Cable setup to allow "choking" (enricher) of Mikuni using Amal bar mounted lever.
When rebuilding disc brake used stainless pistons.
Hirsch tank lining of my steel tank.
All new cables including Venhill teflon lined clutch cable.
Dave Taylor head steady.

Some of what I did was really optional and what you do should be based on what you want the bike for and how many miles you think you'll put on it.

+1
+5000$!

Matt Spencer · Oct 4, 2013

But its only GOT 3000 miles on it .

:lol: Er Um .

If youre going to hang onto it , dismantleing its really the way to go .

Thankfully theyre fairly simple , so leaveing the major lumps assembled and working your way through ( or thru ) isnt impossable .

Motor / Iso's ? Box ./ Primary .

Stripping & inspecting engine , glare in Iso's while you dither there . Get into the box . Once the swing arm pivots done , Box & bottom end back in carrier ,
and youre under way . on the reassembly anyway .

Youll need a few basic fancy tools , or the basic fancy tools . And a good deal of patiance . Though C.R.C. or WD40 ease things as far as that goes .

The nut up under the rear for the head if removed stops malicious damadge with mallets & tyre irons . AND theres only Two of Everything . :mrgreen:

Dollar Wise , sticking to basics & doing it all youreself , replaceing only munted pieces ( in pairs

) can see it done on a tight budget . With more satisfaction
Such as painting it yourself etc , though two pack or powder coating the frame & swing arm isnt a bad idea .

Zinc for engine plates is cheap & looks o.k. , dunno how itd go on the frame , butited stop it rusting if youre not intending it to leak oil .

Krazymummy · Oct 13, 2013

hobot said:
I had the fastest performance out my Peel Combat with single 34 miki carb even w/o the UFO flow increaser kit.

hobot , can you tell me if I can use this carb , "Mikuni VM34 Roundslide Carburetor - Left Spigot VM34-168" ? I have found some time to tinker with the Norton and find the carb a total mess .{See pics below}. Its soaking right now , but I think I may need another .. Good news , (I think ) I found chrome under the ugly layers of paint , and I think I may be able to make it look acceptable for the time being ... The important think though is the carb .. I don't know much about them . Every thing looks the same on them . Its the last numbers that make me hesitant in getting one ( VM34-168 ) "168" does that make this carb a no go for the 72 norton commando 750 combat ?
Thanks for any help , from anyone

Fenders :

Still needs to be polished ...

Hobot · Oct 13, 2013

ugh, if the carb came with the Combat and has the 1>2 manifold then likely carb was 'made for it'. I've only ordered one new and installed on 1st Combat and 2nd Combat came with one installed and were so trouble free already dialed in I didn't have to learn much about them or which model number. Others will fill us both in soon or call a vendor. Some their springs are on the too loose side for good slide return, mine were fine but some put in Amal springs. Single Miki is a bit easier to hold open on long hauls that dual Amal springs. Its likely the needle jet still good. Miki carbs have a tiny 2nd carb called an enricher to cold start on instead of a choke. That's a bit tedious to clean but straight forward and learn which way the lever goes to turn on/off. Looks like it sat up with the non boozed gas which is a good thing as just layers crud on instead of water and booze etching.

Takes time to the pretty up parts and there's no end to that as the better ya get one piece the rest become sore thumbs to ya, ugh. Lucked out fenders w/o obvious dings.

pete.v · Oct 13, 2013

The Vm 34 168 is the right number I believe.

I don't think that's chrome your seeing. More like polished stainless.

Krazymummy · Oct 13, 2013

OK , thanks .. I'm still checking things out . I'm just looking to get a carb just in case the one I have is a dud .. I did luck out on the fenders and the tank I think ( even though its Fiberglass / GRP ) it slept though the "non boozed gas" . I'll have an eye out for a steel one , but for now it'll do..
As far as the carb. I just don't want to throw cash away on one I can't use . That "168" has me on hold ..

Krazymummy · Oct 13, 2013

pete.v said:
The Vm 34 168 is the right number I believe.

I don't think that's chrome your seeing. More like polished stainless.

Hey pete . Thanks for the reply .. So you think those numbers will work as a replacement carb ? Thats good news thanks .. As far as the fenders being SS ? not sure about that . There is some rust and pealing on the inside .. Stainless can be funny with its make up ...

(edit) Well Pete you have gotten my interest up on the SS . During breaks in "Walking Dead" I've been trying to learn more about it .. I thought I new more about it then I really do .. Interesting .. they may be Stainless ..

Jed · Oct 16, 2013

the residue in your carb looks like the glug that was in my tank, a congealed sludge resistant to most solvents
I dropped a handful af nuts and bolts in and they got stuck fast. Boiling water freed them up
Methylated spirit (and a couple of handfuls of 7mm gravel) finally cleaned it out
Don't know if that's advisable in a glass tank but maybe a steel one could be an option?
A mate has a fastback with a single mikuni carb and it goes like a stabbed rat. When he opens it up he disappears like a fart in a fan factory
Lots of bucks and challenges ahead but when it's as it should be all the doubt will be forgotten

Good luck

Starting after 32 years ....

Similar threads