SmartFire

pete.v · Aug 11, 2016

Anyone out here running the Pazon SmartFire?

I see it as an Altair on steroids, and although I am sure it's somewhat coil dependent, it boasts a superior spark.

The Altair, being a fine unit. would be $100 less, with coil, than the SmartFire system (USD).

I don't mind the C note bump as long as it's worth it. What I really need is the superior spark, mag like.

worntorn · Aug 11, 2016

I'm using it on the Vincent Special in a two plug version. If you really want hot hot, for extra $ he made my two plug Smartfire up in a racing version with two drivers, so I went for that.
Aside from the cost, the only disadvantage to the two drivers is that it sucks twice as much electrical power, shouldn't be a problem on your Norton.
There won't be a two plug version for the Norton, so I'm not sure the two driver version would be offered. Might be worth an enquiry.
I wanted the extra hot spark for performance, but also to help with kick starting.

I'm happy with it. If the engine rolls thru compression once, it starts, every time. I don't want to kick that thing twice!

What happened with your Joe Hunt Mag?

Glen

pete.v · Aug 11, 2016

worntorn said:
What happened with your Joe Hunt Mag?

Glen

Still got it and running strong, but what the hell, I gotta keep fiddle fartin. Seems like a worthy compromise and worth trying out.

Onder · Aug 12, 2016

Just to toss in my two cents, I have tried both the Altair and the SureFire on my Commando. I cannot say Ive felt any real difference.

pete.v · Aug 12, 2016

Onder said:
Just to toss in my two cents, I have tried both the Altair and the SureFire on my Commando. I cannot say Ive felt any real difference.

Yes, but what about the SmartFire? This is a much different unit.
I have also ran the surefire. It is a good unit but a base level item.

comnoz · Aug 12, 2016

pete.v said:
Onder said:

Just to toss in my two cents, I have tried both the Altair and the SureFire on my Commando. I cannot say Ive felt any real difference.

Click to expand...

Yes, but what about the SmartFire? This is a much different unit.
I have also ran the surefire. It is a good unit but a base level item.

The Smartfire has no electronics in the points cavity.

The Smartfire does. [not so smart in my book] Jim

Nater_Potater · Aug 12, 2016

pete.v said:
What I really need is the superior spark, mag like.

What drives the need for a magneto-like spark on your bike? (Just curious) I installed their Altair early this spring, and never looked back. Granted, that was after having run points up until then...

Nathan

L.A.B. · Aug 12, 2016

comnoz said:
The Smartfire has no electronics in the points cavity.

The Smartfire does. [not so smart in my book] Jim

:?:

pete.v · Aug 12, 2016

comnoz said:
pete.v said:

Onder said:

Just to toss in my two cents, I have tried both the Altair and the SureFire on my Commando. I cannot say Ive felt any real difference.

Click to expand...

Yes, but what about the SmartFire? This is a much different unit.
I have also ran the surefire. It is a good unit but a base level item.

Click to expand...

The Smartfire has no electronics in the points cavity.

The Smartfire does. [not so smart in my book] Jim

What's up with that, Jim?
I know the Sure Fire has the smaller module to mount under the tank, (as does the Altair) and the SmartFire has the larger module(driver) that you run all the way back to the battery area.

The Altair seems a blend of the Surefire module and the Smartfire trigger and pickup. But none have the electronics in the point cavity........I think.

pete.v · Aug 12, 2016

Nater_Potater said:
pete.v said:

What I really need is the superior spark, mag like.

Click to expand...

What drives the need for a magneto-like spark on your bike? (Just curious) I installed their Altair early this spring, and never looked back. Granted, that was after having run points up until then...

Nathan

It's not so much what I want as to what works on my bike. I have a lot of JS valve train stuff and a JS! cam, a crazy carb and big pipes for a 750.

I tried many ignition (surefire, an array of curves from the PowerArch system) and the one that brought the bike to life was the Joe Hunt mag. Simply put, I just feel that if i decide to move away from the wort hanging off the timing side it will have to be something that delivers a spark as Pazon suggests the Smartfire does.

ashman · Aug 12, 2016

Hi Pete

If you ever decide to sell your Joe Hunt I would be intrested, as you know I am a big fan of J/H maggies and never go back to E/Is or points or anything that relies on a battery to run, my Norton has been sitting for over 7 months while doing some more mods, took only one kick to start it after putting fresh fuel in it, I don't mind mine sitting out the side.

Ashley

pete.v · Aug 13, 2016

Here's another thought.
Generally speaking and assuming much, I surmise that it may take 2 HP to drive the mag to gain 3 hp to the rear wheel for a net gain 1 hp.
Now if I could get a mag type spark without the operational loss then I may feel the full 3 HP at the rear wheel.

Fast Eddie · Aug 13, 2016

pete.v said:
Here's another thought.
Generally speaking and assuming much, I surmise that it may take 2 HP to drive the mag to gain 3 hp to the rear wheel for a net gain 1 hp.
Now if I could get a mag type spark without the operational loss then I may feel the full 3 HP at the rear wheel.

My JS equipped 850 with FCRs and 10.5:1 CR starts and runs a dream with Tri Spark and the coil sold by cNw.

I don't think the choice of ignition trigger has a huge impact on the actual spark power does it?

The choice of ign trigger system is surely more down to things like advance curve, low speed / starting aids, timing accuracy and general quality.

The spark power comes from the coil choice.

Its easy to miss match ign systems and coils, especially if you don't understand such things properly (like me) and that's why I went with a proven combo from a reputable source.

Re the heat issue with the electronics in the timing cover, I guess only time will tell. But I take comfort from how electronics have moved on. When Our Commandos were built, they still used oil filled (for cooling) Lucas coils that had to be mounted in the air flow. Today coils are built into the plug caps and buried deep in DOHC heads. And they don't fail!

I couldn't recommend the Tri Spark / cNw coil kit highly enough.

pete.v · Aug 15, 2016

Fast Eddie said:
Its easy to miss match ign systems and coils, especially if you don't understand such things properly (like me) and that's why I went with a proven combo from a reputable source.

My exact reason for going with Pazon.
But my inquiry is still unanswered except for a good opinion from Worntorn.

FWIW, your suggestion is duly noted.

comnoz · Aug 15, 2016

L.A.B. said:
comnoz said:

The Smartfire has no electronics in the points cavity.

The Smartfire does. [not so smart in my book] Jim

Click to expand...

:?:

A Surefire has a VR sensor in the points cavity. Just a coil of wire. Not temperature sensitive.

The Smartfire has a transistor -a Hall effect sensor -in the points cavity. Jim

L.A.B. · Aug 16, 2016

comnoz said:
L.A.B. said:

comnoz said:

The Smartfire has no electronics in the points cavity.

The Smartfire does. [not so smart in my book] Jim

Click to expand...

:?:

Click to expand...

A Surefire has a VR sensor in the points cavity. Just a coil of wire. Not temperature sensitive.

The Smartfire has a transistor -a Hall effect sensor -in the points cavity. Jim

Yes, ok only you originally said both were Smartfire.

pete.v · Aug 16, 2016

comnoz said:
L.A.B. said:

comnoz said:

The Smartfire has no electronics in the points cavity.

The Smartfire does. [not so smart in my book] Jim

Click to expand...

:?:

Click to expand...

A Surefire has a VR sensor in the points cavity. Just a coil of wire. Not temperature sensitive.

The Smartfire has a transistor -a Hall effect sensor -in the points cavity. Jim

Jim,
Have you ever heard of anyone having issue with this?
Have you played with the SmartFire at all? And if not......
Does the Hall effect sensor in the points cavity keep you from using this system?
How do you feel about other units that have it all in the points cavity? You can answer with a PM if you think there may be a conflict of interest.

comnoz · Aug 16, 2016

pete.v said:
Jim,
Have you ever heard of anyone having issue with this?
Have you played with the SmartFire at all? And if not......
Does the Hall effect sensor in the points cavity keep you from using this system?
How do you feel about other units that have it all in the points cavity? You can answer with a PM if you think there may be a conflict of interest.

Personally I would not use any ignition with electronic parts inside the points cavity. I do a lot of cross country riding and heat is often an issue.

Even when the electronic parts are designed for high temperature use, they do fail simply because of expansion and contraction of the circuit and vibration of the silicone junction -sooner or later.

I have fitted one SmartFire unit. It worked fine when installed and the only problem I am aware of was when he pressure washed the bike and got water in the control box.
I did not notice an increase in performance over the Boyer that it replaced.

Hall sensors used in high temp applications have a high mortality rate. See the problems reported by BMW riders. They did not see a lot of failures of the silicone junction itself but more so the mounting and wiring to the component.

It is likely that the majority of Nortons see much easier use than mine and many people will not encounter problems in the foreseeable future with any of the systems. Jim

acotrel · Aug 16, 2016

The only time I've ever heard of the sparks not being strong enough was from a guy who was running a 1000cc Triumph Trident on 14 to 1 comp. ratio. Years ago I used Lucas K2F magnetos and the problem was never weak spark, it was always internal failure of either the condenser or the windings. And it happened with monotonous regularity at several race meetings. I then changed to a Lucas SR rotating magnet magneto, which never missed a beat even when my twin cylinder motor was revved to 10,5000 RPM. With my racing 850 motor, I now use a double ended Honda coil operated by a fixed timing Boyer system which is completely trouble free. However it is only on 9 to 1 comp. ratio and using methanol fuel and only revs to 7,500 RPM . The only time I've had trouble with it, my bike had been standing for about 12 months and the plugs failed - the carbon on them conducts electricity under certain circumstances, so they can refuse to fire the fuel mixture.

pete.v · Aug 17, 2016

comnoz said:
pete.v said:

Jim,
Have you ever heard of anyone having issue with this?
Have you played with the SmartFire at all? And if not......
Does the Hall effect sensor in the points cavity keep you from using this system?
How do you feel about other units that have it all in the points cavity? You can answer with a PM if you think there may be a conflict of interest.

Click to expand...

Personally I would not use any ignition with electronic parts inside the points cavity. I do a lot of cross country riding and heat is often an issue.

Even when the electronic parts are designed for high temperature use, they do fail simply because of expansion and contraction of the circuit and vibration of the silicone junction -sooner or later.

I have fitted one SmartFire unit. It worked fine when installed and the only problem I am aware of was when he pressure washed the bike and got water in the control box.
I did not notice an increase in performance over the Boyer that it replaced.

Hall sensors used in high temp applications have a high mortality rate. See the problems reported by BMW riders. They did not see a lot of failures of the silicone junction itself but more so the mounting and wiring to the component.

It is likely that the majority of Nortons see much easier use than mine and many people will not encounter problems in the foreseeable future with any of the systems. Jim

Is it fair to say that because the Altair uses the same trigger plate (with Hall effect) that you would not use that one either?

SmartFire

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