SC Typhoon ECU - removing IAC

comet

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I've searched the ECU posts (of which there are many) but can't find any definitive information about the ECU changes for a Typhoon ECU when removing the IAC valve. My Typhoon ECU was unlocked by SCS-Delta so it becomes a Storm ECU as far as the SXTune software is concerned. I saw some posts about disabling the IAC in the Delta 400 settings so I asked SCS how to achieve this for the Typhoon/Storm and was told to set the "Idle Control TPS Enable Threshold (%)" to zero.

When I confirmed this back to SCS and mentioned that I had also blocked the passage between the throttle chambers they said "Do not set the idle TPS enable threshold to zero... The ECU needs to know that the bike should be idling, and will continue to use spark advance to hold the desired target speed" so I had asked the wrong question in the first place.

They also said "Under Fuel Correction Factors, Fuel Offsets, set the Idle Fuel Offset table to zero". I don't recall seeing this informaton in any previous posts so I'm wondering what other Typhoon users have done when effecting this IAC change.

I'm also wondering whether the point about not disabling the IAC in the ECU settings would also apply to the Delta 400, or was it confirmed by SCS that this is correct for the Delta?
 
The simple answer is to block the IAC, then reset the idle/TPS. The bike will run fine(better), you will need to hold the throttle open a crack when starting to take place of IAC operation in the start procedure, as discussed in the threads. All the info for that is in the threads. make sure you either loctite or double nut the idle screw. Double nut is the preferred

Don't need to change the tables at that point unless the bike is running poorly.

Also, when it was unlocked, did you get the latest downloads for it?
 
The simple answer is to block the IAC.........
Thanks, the ECU was unlocked a few years ago I just hadn't got round to sorting out the IAC. I wasn't aware of further downloads, I thought there were only a couple of maps for the Typhoon. Mine has 6500077_PR6_0116 for the short exhausts. Part of my confusion was seeing a post where a Delta 400 user said they disabled the stepper motor in the ECU when doing the IAC change, whereas SCS say don't disable it in the ECU, not for the Typhoon anyway.

After posting above I checked SXTune and couldn't find the fuel options that SCS refer to, there's no menu option for this under Fuel Correction Factors. I'm waiting to hear back from them for clarification on this.
 
"Idle Control TPS Enable Threshold (%)" to zero." tells the ECU that when the TPS reads zero - that the bike needs to idle. This also tells the ECU to corect the idle to the target RPM using spark timing. (conversely, it also tells the ECU that it's not at idle when the TPS is higher than 0, and that it needs to use its regular spark timing strategy)

"Under Fuel Correction Factors, Fuel Offsets, set the Idle Fuel Offset table to zero" reffers to the ECU's ability to, when told to idle, use a fuel correction. My understanding is that this is needed for cooling in some other uses. This isn't needed on the 961.

In the Delta there is simply a tick box as to whether the bike uses an IAC or not.
 
Thanks, the ECU was unlocked a few years ago I just hadn't got round to sorting out the IAC. I wasn't aware of further downloads, I thought there were only a couple of maps for the Typhoon. Mine has 6500077_PR6_0116 for the short exhausts. Part of my confusion was seeing a post where a Delta 400 user said they disabled the stepper motor in the ECU when doing the IAC change, whereas SCS say don't disable it in the ECU, not for the Typhoon anyway.

After posting above I checked SXTune and couldn't find the fuel options that SCS refer to, there's no menu option for this under Fuel Correction Factors. I'm waiting to hear back from them for clarification on this.
Don't worry about any settings and don't overthink it. Just block the incoming hose, unplug the IAC, and then reset the idle and TPS and see where you are at. The Typhoon is a great ECU. I'm a little touchy, but it still works great on the 961
 
"Idle Control TPS Enable Threshold (%)" to zero." tells the ECU that when the TPS reads zero - that the bike needs to idle. This also tells the ECU to corect the idle to the target RPM using spark timing. (conversely, it also tells the ECU that it's not at idle when the TPS is higher than 0, and that it needs to use its regular spark timing strategy)

"Under Fuel Correction Factors, Fuel Offsets, set the Idle Fuel Offset table to zero" reffers to the ECU's ability to, when told to idle, use a fuel correction. My understanding is that this is needed for cooling in some other uses. This isn't needed on the 961.

In the Delta there is simply a tick box as to whether the bike uses an IAC or not.
And our down-under ECU expert has been heard from! Whats up Gojuu!
 
Ok…. My stupid question for this hour is…..
My bike is a 2013… I believe it is the Typhoon ECU?….. It is Locked.
I have blocked the IAC….
Should I reset the TPS…?
Can I reset the TPS…?
If so, How do I do that?
Ok…. I guess thats more than one stupid question….
 
Ok. Thanks. Thats easy. Another question…
With the iac blocked, on a “Cold start” I might have to have the throttle opened quickly after the engine fires or slightly open as its cranking….
1)Doing this might mess with the TPS?
But a “ Warm start”, the bike will start better regarding the throttle position…
2) If a person restarts the bike after its warm, the TPS should be reset and perform as normally?
I’m guessing this is why the bike starts and idles better sometimes than others?
Hopefully those questions make sense. I hadn’t been thinking about the TPS during the starting procedure. I might have to open the throttle blades with the set screw a bit more to get a slightly better start.
 
I re read my last post. I should have asked
1) restarting the bike After its warm, with the throttle closed, should help the TPS reset correctly?
 
Whatever voltage the TPS reads to the ECU at key on is assumbed by the ECU as 0% throttle.

ie: You don't want to hold the throttle on as you turn the key on.
 
Whatever voltage the TPS reads to the ECU at key on is assumbed by the ECU as 0% throttle.

ie: You don't want to hold the throttle on as you turn the key on.
^^^^^^^THIS

It's not complicated.

To make it clear. If you block the IAC, turn on the bike, let the ECU do its thing(DON'T TOUCH THROTTLE), then crack the throttle to your desired place and start the bike. Hold throttle position until the engine is warm enough for idle. Warm weather, it's less than 30 seconds.

If a bike has been ridden/warm, a restart typically doesn't need the throttle held open at start
 
"Idle Control TPS Enable Threshold (%)" to zero." tells the ECU that when the TPS reads zero - that the bike needs to idle. This also tells the ECU to corect the idle to the target RPM using spark timing. (conversely, it also tells the ECU that it's not at idle when the TPS is higher than 0, and that it needs to use its regular spark timing strategy)

I'm working through the various ECU settings to get a better view of how it hangs together. I'm not sure I understand your description of the "Idle Control TPS Enable Threshold (%)". The legacy version of SXTune doesn't have help info for the variables, but if I use the Delta 400 version and load my Typhoon cal I can see a description for each variable. The setting in my cal for this variable is 0.78 - I don't yet know where this comes from. The description says that the ECU will use closed-loop-idle-speed-control when the TPS reads less than this setting. I'm assuming the TPS won't read less than zero, so if you set it to zero it won't recognise idle and won't use spark advance. Does that make sense?
 
??????? I would not do anything until you understand what you are doing.

Why don't you stick to the simple issue of removal and avoid getting involved with anything you don't understand? You are going to fry a perfectly good ECU.

I recommend you read the forums about the settings and re-setting the TPS. I think back in 2022 or 2023, this was covered. The 0.78 is applied when the ECU is calibrated or user defined

also I would review the following links so you understand what the settings do.

https://www.sxtune.co.uk/outputs.html
https://www.sxtune.co.uk/inputs.html#TPS-CABLE

Also, here is a link to the main download page that has the ECU pinouts and other documentation

https://specialist-components.co.uk/gallery/downloads-page/
 
??????? I would not do anything until you understand what you are doing.
That's one of the purposes of this forum I thought, asking questions and sharing information to improve understanding?

Why don't you stick to the simple issue of removal and avoid getting involved with anything you don't understand? You are going to fry a perfectly good ECU.
Over my last 70+ years I've found that building an understanding of how something works makes it easier to operate it optimally, and to fix it when necessary. I'm working with copies of the cal offline and have no intention or desire to access the ECU source code as my coding days are over. Apart from unplugging the IAC without disconnecting the battery I don't see that I'm likely to damage the ECU. An out of range variable in the cal could possibly cause engine damage, but I wouldn't change anything without understanding its impact.

I recommend you read the forums about the settings and re-setting the TPS. I think back in 2022 or 2023, this was covered. The 0.78 is applied when the ECU is calibrated or user defined
I have read through the many posts more than once. Most of it relates to the Delta 400 and the later version of SXTune, I found very little relating to an unlocked Typhoon using the legacy SXTune. I know how the 0.78 is applied, it's referred to in the SCS-Delta instructions for setting the idle (their setting is 0.8), I just wondered how it's derived.

also I would review the following links so you understand what the settings do.

https://www.sxtune.co.uk/outputs.html
https://www.sxtune.co.uk/inputs.html#TPS-CABLE

Also, here is a link to the main download page that has the ECU pinouts and other documentation
Thanks, but I downloaded and read through all of that some time ago. Much of the documentation relates to the Delta 400 version of SXTune and the help information in that version does not always translate to the legacy version. An example of this is the help for the "Auto-zero TPS Mode" in the Delta 400 version, where you select Enabled/Disabled, which is relevant to what I'm doing. The help info says that if Auto-zero is off then the TPS range is calculated between the min/max voltages entered. If Auto-zero is on, the TPS range is calculated between the learnt zero value and the amount calculated by the scaler value. This is for the Delta 400 and doesn't apply to the Typhoon. If TPS auto-zero is disabled on the Typhoon it uses the scaler value to calculate the maximum voltage (as per the enabled option on the Delta 400). This could be confusing for anyone following the instructions, which state that the maximum voltage should be entered into the relevant field, although that data entry field doesn't exist in the legacy SXTune.

Another example of following the instructions without understanding the changes is the TPS process. The SCS-Delta instructions for configuring the TPS state that firstly the "Idle Control TPS Enable Limit (%)" should be set to zero, which turns off closed loop idle control. It doesn't state that this should be reset to its original value once the procedure is completed. The SC instructions do state that it needs to be reset at the end of the process. People may be more inclined to focus on the SCS-Delta site as they now support the ECUs for the 961, whereas it was SC who originally supplied the Typhoon to Norton and also provided Norton with the instructions for setting the idle, albeit that these assume the use of SXCar which doesn't work with an unlocked Typhoon.

PS - I am interested to know how the scaler value is used to calculate the maximum TPS voltage as I can't figure it out. It's not necessary to know this but it would satify my desire to understand how it works.

I've been through that one and found it useful as a starting point, but it's not specific to the 961. Working from the wiring diagrams gave me a better view of the pinouts although I've yet to confirm what I noted as my copies of the wiring diagrams are blurry, especially the ECU pin numbering. Anyway, that's just another academic exercise and not something for today.


Apologies for the lengthy response but you appear to be making assumptions about my knowledge and capabilities. What I try to achieve in using this forum is sharing information for the benefit of others to save them going through the same learning process, but also testing that the information that I and others share is accurate. My recent posts on the "IAC valve knowledge" thread are an example, where the OP assumed that his IAC had been installed with the plunger in the wrong place, whereas if you understand how an IAC works and how the ECU drives it you would know that the initial position of the plunger doesn't matter. I would hope that my input enlightened him.

The post you responded to was addressed to Gojuu as what he stated is at odds with what I believe to be the case. I've certainly been wrong in the past so I was asking the question to see if we could clarify as I think it's important that the information is accurate if people are relying on the forum for guidance.
 
That's one of the purposes of this forum I thought, asking questions and sharing information to improve understanding?


Over my last 70+ years I've found that building an understanding of how something works makes it easier to operate it optimally, and to fix it when necessary. I'm working with copies of the cal offline and have no intention or desire to access the ECU source code as my coding days are over. Apart from unplugging the IAC without disconnecting the battery I don't see that I'm likely to damage the ECU. An out of range variable in the cal could possibly cause engine damage, but I wouldn't change anything without understanding its impact.


I have read through the many posts more than once. Most of it relates to the Delta 400 and the later version of SXTune, I found very little relating to an unlocked Typhoon using the legacy SXTune. I know how the 0.78 is applied, it's referred to in the SCS-Delta instructions for setting the idle (their setting is 0.8), I just wondered how it's derived.


Thanks, but I downloaded and read through all of that some time ago. Much of the documentation relates to the Delta 400 version of SXTune and the help information in that version does not always translate to the legacy version. An example of this is the help for the "Auto-zero TPS Mode" in the Delta 400 version, where you select Enabled/Disabled, which is relevant to what I'm doing. The help info says that if Auto-zero is off then the TPS range is calculated between the min/max voltages entered. If Auto-zero is on, the TPS range is calculated between the learnt zero value and the amount calculated by the scaler value. This is for the Delta 400 and doesn't apply to the Typhoon. If TPS auto-zero is disabled on the Typhoon it uses the scaler value to calculate the maximum voltage (as per the enabled option on the Delta 400). This could be confusing for anyone following the instructions, which state that the maximum voltage should be entered into the relevant field, although that data entry field doesn't exist in the legacy SXTune.

Another example of following the instructions without understanding the changes is the TPS process. The SCS-Delta instructions for configuring the TPS state that firstly the "Idle Control TPS Enable Limit (%)" should be set to zero, which turns off closed loop idle control. It doesn't state that this should be reset to its original value once the procedure is completed. The SC instructions do state that it needs to be reset at the end of the process. People may be more inclined to focus on the SCS-Delta site as they now support the ECUs for the 961, whereas it was SC who originally supplied the Typhoon to Norton and also provided Norton with the instructions for setting the idle, albeit that these assume the use of SXCar which doesn't work with an unlocked Typhoon.

PS - I am interested to know how the scaler value is used to calculate the maximum TPS voltage as I can't figure it out. It's not necessary to know this but it would satify my desire to understand how it works.


I've been through that one and found it useful as a starting point, but it's not specific to the 961. Working from the wiring diagrams gave me a better view of the pinouts although I've yet to confirm what I noted as my copies of the wiring diagrams are blurry, especially the ECU pin numbering. Anyway, that's just another academic exercise and not something for today.


Apologies for the lengthy response but you appear to be making assumptions about my knowledge and capabilities. What I try to achieve in using this forum is sharing information for the benefit of others to save them going through the same learning process, but also testing that the information that I and others share is accurate. My recent posts on the "IAC valve knowledge" thread are an example, where the OP assumed that his IAC had been installed with the plunger in the wrong place, whereas if you understand how an IAC works and how the ECU drives it you would know that the initial position of the plunger doesn't matter. I would hope that my input enlightened him.

The post you responded to was addressed to Gojuu as what he stated is at odds with what I believe to be the case. I've certainly been wrong in the past so I was asking the question to see if we could clarify as I think it's important that the information is accurate if people are relying on the forum for guidance.
No worries—I wasn’t making assumptions. I was simply trying to help you avoid a potential misstep with the ECU. There’s really nothing new to unpack here, as this process has already been well-documented. If I had any doubts about your understanding, you cleared them up the moment you referenced the fundamentals of an ECU. At that level, you’d know that elements like the "scaler" are determined during the calibration phase, where it’s mapped to achieve the specific performance characteristics.

Very few people have a deep understanding of the SCS ECU's the way we do, but with that said, this will be my final piece of advice on the matter to you. Best of luck with your "exercise."
 
No worries—I wasn’t making assumptions. I was simply trying to help you avoid a potential misstep with the ECU. There’s really nothing new to unpack here, as this process has already been well-documented. If I had any doubts about your understanding, you cleared them up the moment you referenced the fundamentals of an ECU. At that level, you’d know that elements like the "scaler" are determined during the calibration phase, where it’s mapped to achieve the specific performance characteristics.

Very few people have a deep understanding of the SCS ECU's the way we do, but with that said, this will be my final piece of advice on the matter to you. Best of luck with your "exercise."
Thanks, I wouldn't say I had a deep understanding, more a reasonable grasp of the tuning fundamentals, not that I'm intending to do any tuning on the 961, and I don't have access to a rolling road.

One thing that surprises me is when I hear about tuning companies with rolling roads etc who say they can't do the 961, as the fundamentals are pretty consistent across the board. I wonder if it's that they just don't want to get involved with a different software interface.

The bit about the scaler was how it actually does its calculation. I know it gets set automatically when you recalibrate the TPS but I can't figure out how it uses that result to determine the maximum voltage, having tried various calculation permutations. Again, this is more for my own interest, but having spent a fair amount of my career troubleshooting computer issues, both hardware and software, I know that it's quite possible there are some bugs in the ECU coding and if I could reconcile the scaler value with the known maximum voltage I would feel more comfortable, not that I doubt this particular calculation but it would satify my inquisitiveness. It seems an unusual way of determining the max voltage when that voltage amount could just be entered, and I thought that scaling was more commonly used to deal with voltage variations at closed throttle eg. if the voltage is within the scaler% of the min voltage then assume the throttle is closed. On that latter point though, I note in the Typhoon settings that the ECU does a TPS Auto-zero recalculation every 500ms, presumably when the TPS reads below a certain level.

I'm switching off the TPS Auto zero, one benefit being removal of the issue about not touching the throttle at startup.

PS - yesterday I asked Matthew at SCS-Delta about the scaler% calculation and he said that probably the only person who understands this is the guy who wrote the code (which wasn't him).
 
Thanks, I wouldn't say I had a deep understanding, more a reasonable grasp of the tuning fundamentals, not that I'm intending to do any tuning on the 961, and I don't have access to a rolling road.

One thing that surprises me is when I hear about tuning companies with rolling roads etc who say they can't do the 961, as the fundamentals are pretty consistent across the board. I wonder if it's that they just don't want to get involved with a different software interface.

The bit about the scaler was how it actually does its calculation. I know it gets set automatically when you recalibrate the TPS but I can't figure out how it uses that result to determine the maximum voltage, having tried various calculation permutations. Again, this is more for my own interest, but having spent a fair amount of my career troubleshooting computer issues, both hardware and software, I know that it's quite possible there are some bugs in the ECU coding and if I could reconcile the scaler value with the known maximum voltage I would feel more comfortable, not that I doubt this particular calculation but it would satify my inquisitiveness. It seems an unusual way of determining the max voltage when that voltage amount could just be entered, and I thought that scaling was more commonly used to deal with voltage variations at closed throttle eg. if the voltage is within the scaler% of the min voltage then assume the throttle is closed. On that latter point though, I note in the Typhoon settings that the ECU does a TPS Auto-zero recalculation every 500ms, presumably when the TPS reads below a certain level.

I'm switching off the TPS Auto zero, one benefit being removal of the issue about not touching the throttle at startup.

PS - yesterday I asked Matthew at SCS-Delta about the scaler% calculation and he said that probably the only person who understands this is the guy who wrote the code (which wasn't him).
Hi Comet , I know very little about setting up these ECUs. Sorry I can’t help much.
 
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