Racing 2021

SteveA · May 28, 2021

storm42 said:
No, the head, the lip of the liner is only .097" thick and doesn't look wide enough for a groove, really, it shouldn't need anything and may end up with nothing, but it won't hurt to explore all the possibilities. I haven't looked at the head yet to see if a groove is possible.

I'm sure it is possible, but surely the alignment is going to have to be perfect to be effective alongside those through bolt cavities?

worntorn · May 28, 2021

I've come to the conclusion that you are a bad boy to take a Norton out to 920ccs.
You are also a bad boy for using an alloy barrel. They seem to cause a fair bit of trouble on these engines, go out of round over time and so forth.
Finally, only a really bad boy would raise the CR to 11 to 1!
Bad boys get into trouble, it's a fact.

I'm in the same spot with the alloy barrel and the 920, but not quite such a juvenile delinquent on the CR, at 9.5 to 1.
I'm expecting trouble soon!

Copper head gasket , liner top flange machined to .005" above cylinder gasket surface.
Copper spray on gasket. All good so far, but it is early days.

Glen

Chris · May 28, 2021

I don't want to post this
But
My 960. Steve Maney reduced the compression ratio because it had gone bang. He said it needed rocket fuel to run at the compression ratio it was at. My friend John rebuilt it 5 years ago, we cut down bolts & rethreaded the ends as at sometime the head was retapped Whitworth! Wellseal & a copper head gasket. It has a bit of colour to the head, probably oil mist but I've never had to wipe it down. Good luck with yours Ralph.

storm42 · Jun 6, 2021

Fast Eddie said:
I don’t think the alloy head has the same bite as an iron barrel or liner Ralph. Can’t see that working matey.

Maybe there is no engineering solution. Maybe you just gotta resign yourself to an annual head gasket change (hardly excessive really)?

You may be right there, I guess I should be in the motor more often anyway as a race engine.

storm42 · Jun 6, 2021

Seeley920 said:
Did a 920 head that way about 30 years ago. Machined a groove for some coax inner cable (tv aerial wire). Never had a problem after that. It's probably still on a shelf in storage if I can ever get back to it

I am going to try it, thinner wire though.

storm42 · Jun 6, 2021

worntorn said:
I've come to the conclusion that you are a bad boy to take a Norton out to 920ccs.
You are also a bad boy for using an alloy barrel. They seem to cause a fair bit of trouble on these engines, go out of round over time and so forth.
Finally, only a really bad boy would raise the CR to 11 to 1!
Bad boys get into trouble, it's a fact.

I'm in the same spot with the alloy barrel and the 920, but not quite such a juvenile delinquent on the CR, at 9.5 to 1.
I'm expecting trouble soon!

Copper head gasket , liner top flange machined to .005" above cylinder gasket surface.
Copper spray on gasket. All good so far, but it is early days.

Glen

I have been in trouble all my life, although more so since getting married over 30 years ago, I mean, who would have thought, there is a wrong way to put the milk back in the fridge.

EstuaryBoy · Jun 6, 2021

storm42 said:
I have been in trouble all my life, although more so since getting married over 30 years ago, I mean, who would have thought, there is a wrong way to put the milk back in the fridge.

Surely sometime in the same week is good enough???

storm42 · Jun 6, 2021

Chris said:
I don't want to post this
But
My 960. Steve Maney reduced the compression ratio because it had gone bang. He said it needed rocket fuel to run at the compression ratio it was at. My friend John rebuilt it 5 years ago, we cut down bolts & rethreaded the ends as at sometime the head was retapped Whitworth! Wellseal & a copper head gasket. It has a bit of colour to the head, probably oil mist but I've never had to wipe it down. Good luck with yours Ralph.

Post what you wan't Chris, it is how we learn. I mix Shell V power 50/50 with 100LL avgas and have not heard any pinking, there is no evidence of detonation now the motor is in bits either, so I think I am there or there abouts with the engine.

I think that as the gasket only seems to have gone into a bolt hole and only on one side, that the problem isn't as bad as perceived and will be ok when I re build it, we will see.

By the way Chris, have you noticed Pembrey is back on?, 19/20th June. Entries open tonight at 18:00.

storm42 · Jun 6, 2021

I tend not to use milk but it would be a definite no no after a week out of the fridge, that would have me boaking.

Hmm, thats odd, it won't copy EstuaryBoys post, odd.

storm42 · Jun 6, 2021

SteveA said:
Cronshaw is someone I would take the time to listen to!

Yamaha Classic Racing Team under Ferry Brower used Heidenau exclusively for a long time and put many former champions on track on them, not one of these former professionals complained!

But if you are interested talk to Tony Salt, he is the official UK importer, and the only UK supplier, because he is the only one who keeps them at the proper temperature.

With Heidenau there are stories, some people don't like them, complain of bad experiences. Some didn't listen to rim size recommendations from Heidenau, generally wider than for Avons, or tyre pressure recommendations from Tony, generally lower than for Avons. And some of those who complained had been delivered road compound tyres, or badly stored race tyres, or didn't bed them in! They come feeling quite hard but properly run in they are a different beast.

A pair of Heidenau tyres have landed and I need to use a different rim for the front, whilst doing the research on rim sizes, I have found that the rear rim I have is not right for the Continental. It turns out that a 130/80/18 should use a 3.00 x 18 rim and a 130/70/18 should be on a 3.5/18 rim.

As it happens, that make the 3.5 rear I have, good for the Heidenau which I will try at the next race, I am looking at building another wheel for the Continental.

The front needs a 2.15 x 18 rim and as luck would have it, I found a Borrani in the back of the garage, I also found my Commando hub and as I built the bike over braked in the first place, I have a disk. I am going to order some spokes tomorrow and build the wheel for the next race.

Fast Eddie · Jun 6, 2021

Ralph, in your shoes I’d be reluctant at to start cutting metal if the ‘solution’ is simply taking the head off once a year. In fact I think you’ve been spoiled… try racing a Triumph twin and you’ll realise that’s nowt !!

Also… I’m thinking your gasket creep may be a sign of excess heat? Do you run and oil cooler? An oil cooler in the feed to the head would (IMHO) cool the oil going to the head, create a greater heat differential, and take more heat away from the head.

Chris · Jun 6, 2021

Hi Ralph
Yes noticed Pembrey. I will make a decision Thursday. I would rather go there than Cadwell but I've taken on a lot since Pembrey was cancelled & I need to see if I can get through it in time to be ready! Cant go knackered.

Chris · Jun 6, 2021

Sorry meant to say. I think your diagnosis of the head gasket is spot on & you wont have problems. Go to it, getting the wheel built! I'm plodding & treading water at best!

storm42 · Jun 6, 2021

Fast Eddie said:
Ralph, in your shoes I’d be reluctant at to start cutting metal if the ‘solution’ is simply taking the head off once a year. In fact I think you’ve been spoiled… try racing a Triumph twin and you’ll realise that’s nowt !!

Also… I’m thinking your gasket creep may be a sign of excess heat? Do you run and oil cooler? An oil cooler in the feed to the head would (IMHO) cool the oil going to the head, create a greater heat differential, and take more heat away from the head.

Yes I think it is heat related too, but I believe it is the heat from being held in the holding area and on the line that is the problem. The organisers don't seem to take into account that these air cooled engines cannot be left running for long without airflow. It caused havoc at Mallory with the 500 guys, an enforced quiet period occurred just before their start and half the field just went back to their pits.

I am looking at a way to make my starter easier for George to bring down to the start line.

storm42 · Jun 6, 2021

Chris said:
Hi Ralph
Yes noticed Pembrey. I will make a decision Thursday. I would rather go there than Cadwell but I've taken on a lot since Pembrey was cancelled & I need to see if I can get through it in time to be ready! Cant go knackered.

I haven't made my mind up about Pembrey, I would like to go as I have not been before.

I have the parts needed to put my motor back together, I was holding back because I have ordered some pistons and was hoping to avoid building it twice. Jim has told me there is a piston backlog caused by the Covid problems so I am going to get it built, not the end of the world.

If you do Pembrey would you pull out of Cadwell?

Chris · Jun 6, 2021

Just been reminded its fathers day! I think we are booked in for a meal on Sunday! So Pembreys probably a no!
I love the circuit to ride Ralph. It is a riders circuit people do well there who dont feature as high up the field elsewhere. I will be at Cadwell its just I want to get out & do as many as possible this year & as always it's not working!

storm42 · Jun 6, 2021

Chris said:
Just been reminded its fathers day! I think we are booked in for a meal on Sunday! So Pembreys probably a no!
I love the circuit to ride Ralph. It is a riders circuit people do well there who dont feature as high up the field elsewhere. I will be at Cadwell its just I want to get out & do as many as possible this year & as always it's not working!

Bin the meal and get the kids to do you a slap up barbi at Pembrey, it is your day after all.

Chris · Jun 6, 2021

Originally it was a birthday weekend treat. Aaah lol.

Steves · Jun 7, 2021

storm42 said:
Bin the meal and get the kids to do you a slap up barbi at Pembrey, it is your day after all.

Ralph are you going to Pembrey? I have entered the F750, thinking of entering the 1300 (your race?) as I need track time. The races are back to back which might be a logistic problem and knackering no doubt! Also toying with the test day on the Friday, though might already be full.

storm42 · Jun 8, 2021

Yes, I just have got an entry. Classic Clubman 251 - 1300cc. Not been there before but won't be doing the test day, I had better get the bike back together.