P11 loose steering head

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I have seen this bracket with vertical gauge mount arrangement, but it looks home made.
Does it? Well, it's the genuine part as far as I can see. Due to the slot in the upper yoke and stiffening of the bracket, all forces are supported.

-Knut
 

elefantrider

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Ok then, now that is settled, I must try to find one in original old paint to match the rest of the bike. This may take a while!
 
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Artificial ageing? :)

If you are looking for the genuine part, you are in for a long wait. These parts are quite rare and in 10 years I have seen just a couple of samples advertised on Fleebay. Maybe Baxter Cycle has a sample to sell?

Let's see how mix-and-match of the fork parts work out first!
BTW, I trust you are aware of the change in yoke geometry pre- and post-1960 which also affected the top yoke.

-Knut
 
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elefantrider

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Artificial ageing? :)

If you are looking for the genuine part, you are in for a long wait. These parts are quite rare and in 10 years I have seen just a couple of samples advertised on Fleebay. Maybe Baxter Cycle has a sample to sell?

Let's see how mix-and-match of the fork parts work out first!
BTW, I trust you are aware of the change in yoke geometry pre- and post-1960 which also affected the top yoke.

-Knut
Good idea to test fit the top yoke first. Isn't this fork a post-60? I thought all late big stanchion Matchless forks were post '60.
https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/p11-loose-steering-head.25581/page-2#post-397183
 
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elefantrider

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Artificial ageing? :)

If you are looking for the genuine part, you are in for a long wait. These parts are quite rare and in 10 years I have seen just a couple of samples advertised on Fleebay. Maybe Baxter Cycle has a sample to sell?

-Knut
Meanwhile, I will ask Baxter. They seem to have a lot of old Matchless fixings laying around.
 
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Good idea to test fit the top yoke first. Isn't this fork a post-60? I thought all late big stanchion Matchless forks were post '60.
Hard to say as the only difference was machining. The newer version has a "6" stamped onto the casting at the stem/nut surface. I think this has been discussed here in the past. The stamping may be hard to detect due to tear and wear (very unfavorable place for putting a stamp), and you may have to verify by measuring the machined surfaces. The difference is exceedingly small (1 degree or less) and detecting the actual version (pre- or post '60) may require use of a coordinate measuring machine.

The transition to 1-1/4" stanchions occured in 1954 for the 1955 models.

Regards,
Knut
 
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Meanwhile, I will ask Baxter. They seem to have a lot of old Matchless fixings laying around.
Be sure to ask for the latest version 030404 which is the best design. I believe Baxter bought all of Domiracer's AMC and Tri/BSA parts. As Bob Schanz was a fan of AMC, they had quite a stash of parts.

-Knut
 

elefantrider

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The mix and match worked. The G80CS top yoke is the same as P11 except it has a provision for the mounting of a center speedometer bracket. Will post up a photo later.
 

elefantrider

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The gaiter clamps drove me crazy as they did not want to stay in place. The raised ridge is supposed to be in the middle of both wires (per left top clip), or both wires are supposed to be before the ridge (per right top clip)?
 
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The gaiter clamps drove me crazy as they did not want to stay in place. The raised ridge is supposed to be in the middle of both wires (per left top clip), or both wires are supposed to be before the ridge (per right top clip)?
I don't know this for sure, but the fact the wires are split quite a bit to me indicates the ridge is supposed to be in the middle of them. On the G80CS, a hose clamp type was used at each end of the gaiter. In this set-up, the hose clamp is fitted above (btm. cover tube) and below (extension tube for slider) the ridge. Why AMC changed this probably has more to do with aestethics than technical merits.

-Knut
 
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The mix and match worked. The G80CS top yoke is the same as P11 except it has a provision for the mounting of a center speedometer bracket.
Interesting! Are you using new stanchions / fork tubes? Did you verify the fork tube seating is parallel top/btm and also concentric within each yoke?
How do you know you have a P11 crown and stem (lower triple tree)?

There were many variations of Teledraulic fork yokes, probably 5 or 6 since 1960. For instance, in 1963 the trail was changed for roadsters fitted with 18" wheel while the G12CSR kept the trail specified for 1960 as it was specified with 19" wheels. These differences came about by varying the fork tube bore vs. stem angle. The 1960 std. is said to be paralell (0 degree deviation), all others have a + or - deviation probably.
Changes were subtle but even 0.25 degrees has a big impact on magnitude of trail. This is not a straightforward game unfortunately.

-Knut
 

elefantrider

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Maybe I got lucky. There is no rocking, everything is tight.

Old tubes which come up all the way straight in the top yoke. Look at the top nuts in photo, straight and flush.

Entire front end is from a G80CS except for the bottom yoke and springs. Good action and no leaks when bought.
Cleaned, re-greased and filled with 6.5 ounces of Belray 20w fork oil.
Real smooth and no leaks!

Springs are exact same as on the P11 forks, BTW.

How do I know the bottom P11 yoke is original?
This whole bike is original, it had been sitting in a barn in-op since the early 1970s.
 
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elefantrider

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I see the prototype replica does not have the brackets, so looks like they are not needed after all.


I see the above prototype replica does not have a steering damper. I will likely not run one either so as not to interfere with the center speedo I plan to run. Who actually finds their steering danper to be of much good? Tightening up the races by the center nut provides a similiar effect as these early steering dampers, IMO and the look is cleaner without a headlamp.
 

elefantrider

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I have found another difference. My top Matchless yoke has an approximately 3/8" threaded hole in it, facing the headlight. The p11 top yoke does not have this hole. What is this hole used for on Matchless bikes?

I have just remembered this hole because I would like to find a way to mount a single gauge like Ekins did, center and more facing the rider:

The photo serving as inspiration for my front end build is from the Greenhorn Enduro, circa 1963. This was a timed rally event put on by the Pasadena MC Club. Riders were penalized for arriving too soon or too late, hence the speedo to keep time. The bikes in that era were mostly Triumphs and a few Matchless.

I have never dropped a P11 while riding but the bike has fallen by itself when stationary on the sidestand. The first thing that breaks is the headlight glass and gauges, which is why I have removed the headlamp and am moving the speedo to the center, like these bikes. I have broken 2 headlamps, and damaged 1 gauge to unsalvageable condition. The bucket, ring, ears, and gauges plate also get damaged. These parts are getting difficult to find, so they are better left off for any offroad riding.

The headlamp harness unplugs in sections easily. The only connection needed for the bike to run is the two ammeter wires. I have a jumper for that. The harness giving me a fit is the high low switch. It does not want to unplug from the old junction block. Will try a little heat on the block and see if that helps.
 

elefantrider

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93409F67-56AF-4ECF-8BBB-8951699A8AC3.jpeg

Here is the junction block giving me a fit. Bullet does not want to separate. The junction block is so hard it crumbles. The high low lamp switch is the top blue and brown wires which need to be disconnected. I think I've seen replacement junction blocks available but don't remember where?

Anyone remember which side of the harness block is supposed to separate, the main harness side or the switch side?
 
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p400

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eBay - type in lucas 5 connector
you will have to use needle nose pliers and try to pull the metal bullet out not the wire.
you can push the other bullet out with a pin , reaching thru the connector block.

Bullet Connector 5 way for lucas Triumph Norton BSA 850832 UK MADE
 

Ron L

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You can buy a new 5-way connector from British Wiring, but my preference is to replace it with 5 single connectors as the 5-ways don't seem to tolerate the vibration well.
 
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