One carb vs duals, theoretically speaking
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hobot said:
can we get a courtesy flush in here please!
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hobot said:
Hehe who the hell knows yet le Carbono, [do appreciate your kindly slapping me attitude here] but you and similar sneering nay sayers are directly in Ms Peel's sights to find out dramatically. I want to break under 10 sec 1/4 mile ET. What I've already found out in spades is new bikes that can break under 11 sec 1/4 miles can't corner worth a damn compared to tri-linked Peel. So my goal ain't highest top speeds or best bee line sprints, its staying in dragster acceleration into and out of turns. The extra fun part will be trying to do this with vintage technology. I think Peel's 130 narrow tire will be the limiting sprint factor, but if I can believe the online calculators Peel/me will have equal or more torque lb ft per total mass than a lot of the elites out there. What I've found is the torque hook up accelerates ya while the hp determines how long that pull can continue.
There is also the wheelie prone-ness I ran into contesting with '04/'05 liter bikes. They'd pop up and have to back off as Ms Peel just leaked ahead of them into turns. Really blew my mind as it should those reading it here. I never popped wheelies on my SV650 until I had a flat on Peel and just jumped on SV to go back to work. My seat of the pants was still programmed on Peels pull and pull downs so almost crashed the first time I pulled down on SV for blind crest and damn tail lifted instead of slowing like Peel. Then the next shocker was entering easy sweepers at Peels mere commuting speeds to have my suspension upgraded SV on non DOT fat race tires skipping out in shock to recover and back off. UGH. At this point I'd already had Codes corner school under belt and thought as everyone else did - no way a quaint C'do could match em in any way but looks and sound.
Ms Peel must also run good w/o the Drouin so gives opportunity to experiment with various carb
Wonder whats the fastest time you have run to date, and whats the projected rear wheel HP of your blown bike? To run a 1/4 under 1o seconds I would think you are going to need a fair amount of power?
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uGH, no kidding and its up in the aire if Peel's conflicted engine components or drive train will hold up to have a chance. You don't have a private mail here to carry this on in more detail but engine calc's imply 140 crank hp using as realitic conservative data put in. Plugging in the mass and project power implies there's enough to beat 10 sec but obviously the pilot and bike must be able to hook it up too. NO one has blown a 920 and no one raises CR to apply boost to, but me and Mercedes Benz, plus a few other nut cases that got away with it. I had a real Norton dragster as 1st bike so know a bit what i'm getting to with dangerous throttle twitch tire spin, so maybe i can handle it but not as confident in straight tire floating sprints as I am in the ground effects low cornering tire spin. But shoot i ride THE Grit and everything is over powered on that.
It may turn out I or Peel can't take the Drouin in real life so will change cams and test various carb combos for as long as it takes.
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hudson29 said:
Paul,
They are intended for street use.
So far I have been building to order and installing and tuning the fuel injection systems here at my shop. I have not found any two bikes that require the same tuning yet so if I were to sell a kit it would need to be tuned by someone who has a dyno and some experiance with this type of setup. I have talked to Leo Goff and he feels he can tune the system and I am sure there are others around the country who could also. Maybe as time goes on and I have installed enough systems I will be able to send them pre-tuned to the point that it would only need some fine tuning to be perfect but I am not at that point yet.
I am finishing the first installation on a completely stock 850 this week. Prior to this bike all of the installations I have done have been on bikes with varying degrees of modification. It has made it tough to nail down a solid baseline to start with.
You can contact me at comnoz2@comcast.net if you want some more info. Jim
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hobot said:
Good luck............you are going to need it!
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1up3down said:
My earlier answer seems to have gone over the top of your heads.
The single carb set up on say, a single Amal carb was never meant to provide more power, it was meant to allow the guys riding the featherbed frames with sidecars and the boys in blue riding around the metropolis all day long, doing escort duties e.t.c. more low down grunt, i.e. to allow the speed to drop to around 25mph in top gear (even lower on sidecar gearing) and without changing down a gear, pull away again.
With a twin carb setup, (And NOT a double choke Weber!)- you wouldn’t be able to do that.
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Hymph . There was the mag wheeled thing NVT were said to be going to release in 78 ? with the 1 3/4 SU .(44 or 45 mm)
though its a C.V. carb like these Jap things used . :shock:
. Livingston tried one with the bur=tterfly awol and cable to
the slide . His considered opion was that like that it wasnt very smooth .Or at all smooth , or sufficently smooth to ride ,
as far as responce / progression went . One way to learn , do it . Jags had 2 in. if you need one , leave dash pot set up .
Now dual 1 3/4s would be intresting . :mrgreen: Typical S.U. engine has to wind over to create vacume and draw fuel though
so be sure to fit a choke assy .
Dual injectors , with a slow speed ( lower 1/3 throttle ) map , and the second working as secondarys / accelerator pumps
would be intresting .Comparable to the 4 valve single twin choke bit , one for low speed to keep aiflow speed good . ? ? .
Hymph . Hobot . Nero was runnig 10 even with a 4 in M&H . The olde geezers thought 90 HP & 160 mph for a 60s spec, Vin
this was from the bloke who muttered that the Burns and Wright engine came from there , had two cut off for Nortons or
ex speed boat raceing engines hideing in the shed , and had the Vincent agency in N.Z. . Traction & a slider clutch ? ? .
though its a C.V. carb like these Jap things used . :shock:
. Livingston tried one with the bur=tterfly awol and cable tothe slide . His considered opion was that like that it wasnt very smooth .Or at all smooth , or sufficently smooth to ride ,
as far as responce / progression went . One way to learn , do it . Jags had 2 in. if you need one , leave dash pot set up .
Now dual 1 3/4s would be intresting . :mrgreen: Typical S.U. engine has to wind over to create vacume and draw fuel though
so be sure to fit a choke assy .
Dual injectors , with a slow speed ( lower 1/3 throttle ) map , and the second working as secondarys / accelerator pumps
would be intresting .Comparable to the 4 valve single twin choke bit , one for low speed to keep aiflow speed good . ? ? .
Hymph . Hobot . Nero was runnig 10 even with a 4 in M&H . The olde geezers thought 90 HP & 160 mph for a 60s spec, Vin
this was from the bloke who muttered that the Burns and Wright engine came from there , had two cut off for Nortons or
ex speed boat raceing engines hideing in the shed , and had the Vincent agency in N.Z. . Traction & a slider clutch ? ? .
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Ok I'm getting a sense of the conditions that each option excels in. If no air plenum and efficient manifold to draw from by a single throat carb/injector, then separately feed jugs by big enough carb/throat can make more power, but not as nicely in real world conditions as a single carb/throat feeding em all. Fuel injection and supercharging bypasses the need of venturi speed to suck up/atomize fuel.
When I snagged my '68 P!! in '71, which I would straddle, pick up to spin around under me to face it outward to roll out of cluttered garage, the teenager that inherited it told me its best time was 10.49 1/4 mile on 4" slick. He had a new H2 750 triple and the Cheetah was only running on one cylinder, so he had no interest in such a tiny old clunker thumper, so in mood to sell cheap. Its first ride to test dried out the bad coil and it wheelied straight up on 3/4 throttle on steep down hill path to fling me off pegs with seat flipped up in face only holding on to bars like a flag in the wind, I knew I had to have it no matter what. It was build 2" low in front and took excessive explosive power to wheelie and not just spin tyre. On a street tire I could flat walk away from the H2's and think it was good for mid 11's in public configuration with a light and tag added. If I wanted too I could drop clutch at 7000 rpm and run up to 9000 and go though gear and not move a bike length out of the smoke cloud. Any and everything you see in moderns instantly getting sideways on straight ways was easy to do and dangerous to whip out of traffic lane to pass a line of cars and would get sideways over 60-70 if I gave it any throttle while leaning a bit just to get out of lane. It had two Amals, idled at easy 600 rpm and always started first kick even after sitting up 9 mo's. It did break my foot a few times if I didn't Karate Kick it right the first time as rather advanced timing would kick back bad if too timid.
All the current elites can only get into the lower 10 sec 1/4's so there's a chance Ms Peel could match or best em, but will be fun to find out. But Peel is meant most to apply hi power while leaned and I already know with just Combat power she could and did put down more power leaned past 45' than any fatso tire bike can or tired - in vain to chase after Peel and me. No brag pure fact or how could I face the world with such brazen BS and not get excluded from any further banter on lists.
I did get caught up with in over half mile opens but even then its was always after I backed off for blinds I'd had shocks in prior. Peel did get out dragged leaving rest stops by the 900's and above, after 90 mph in 2nd, dang it.
Carbon, I don't think 140 hp/120 tq is enough to do what I want in bee lines and didn't even plug in Drouins advertized amount of power increase, 58%, on standard cam engines when doing the online calculators, nor ran rpm over 7000.
Peel 920 10.5 CR has drag only cam to start with so should pack in well over 100% a bit over fast idle. Calc's imply = to 1500+ cc unblown engine. I practice keeping rear spun up in best grip on THE Gravel climbs outs and few 100 yd long 'straights'.
Its fun but strange to do the opposite/inverse of keeping her turning w/o full rear hook up.
When I snagged my '68 P!! in '71, which I would straddle, pick up to spin around under me to face it outward to roll out of cluttered garage, the teenager that inherited it told me its best time was 10.49 1/4 mile on 4" slick. He had a new H2 750 triple and the Cheetah was only running on one cylinder, so he had no interest in such a tiny old clunker thumper, so in mood to sell cheap. Its first ride to test dried out the bad coil and it wheelied straight up on 3/4 throttle on steep down hill path to fling me off pegs with seat flipped up in face only holding on to bars like a flag in the wind, I knew I had to have it no matter what. It was build 2" low in front and took excessive explosive power to wheelie and not just spin tyre. On a street tire I could flat walk away from the H2's and think it was good for mid 11's in public configuration with a light and tag added. If I wanted too I could drop clutch at 7000 rpm and run up to 9000 and go though gear and not move a bike length out of the smoke cloud. Any and everything you see in moderns instantly getting sideways on straight ways was easy to do and dangerous to whip out of traffic lane to pass a line of cars and would get sideways over 60-70 if I gave it any throttle while leaning a bit just to get out of lane. It had two Amals, idled at easy 600 rpm and always started first kick even after sitting up 9 mo's. It did break my foot a few times if I didn't Karate Kick it right the first time as rather advanced timing would kick back bad if too timid.
All the current elites can only get into the lower 10 sec 1/4's so there's a chance Ms Peel could match or best em, but will be fun to find out. But Peel is meant most to apply hi power while leaned and I already know with just Combat power she could and did put down more power leaned past 45' than any fatso tire bike can or tired - in vain to chase after Peel and me. No brag pure fact or how could I face the world with such brazen BS and not get excluded from any further banter on lists.
I did get caught up with in over half mile opens but even then its was always after I backed off for blinds I'd had shocks in prior. Peel did get out dragged leaving rest stops by the 900's and above, after 90 mph in 2nd, dang it.
Carbon, I don't think 140 hp/120 tq is enough to do what I want in bee lines and didn't even plug in Drouins advertized amount of power increase, 58%, on standard cam engines when doing the online calculators, nor ran rpm over 7000.
Peel 920 10.5 CR has drag only cam to start with so should pack in well over 100% a bit over fast idle. Calc's imply = to 1500+ cc unblown engine. I practice keeping rear spun up in best grip on THE Gravel climbs outs and few 100 yd long 'straights'.
Its fun but strange to do the opposite/inverse of keeping her turning w/o full rear hook up.
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I wonder whats the fastest time you have run to date, and what chassis will you be using on your supercharged race bike? Will you be running methanol or nitro, and what class are you going to be competing in? As to any bike fitted with a 1947 designed motor being able to live with modern machinery on the drag strip, a 2010 600 ZZR with basic mods will run in the nines: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCcPrz5Ayuk
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