Oiling the swingarm bushing.

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kerinorton said:
My 2 bikes have gravity fed 90 oil going through that centre bolt on the 850 or through a replacement bolt where the zerk fitting is fitted, on my 750. Both bolts are drilled and have a 3/16 OD copper tube brazed to them with a length of 3/16 ID neoprene hose connected, and joining up witha 30 ml bottle of the 90 oil. Easy. I fill it up maybe twice a year or before a long ride.
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Been reading abot oilite bushings on the internet. Websites with machinists arguing "grease/oil" back and forth. Now, Norton never expected these machines to last as they have or else they might have done what you've done. One interesting comment was "grease is just oil in a marix to hold it in place." The matrix and it's properties were not clearly defined. Generally, grease was to be avoided simply because it would not flow as desired to where it was needed. When the time comes I'll replace the bearings -- and the spindle if necessary, and implement a metered flow as you have done.
 
My ‘74 had totally sealed (sic) end caps, no zerk, no through bolt.
I drilled the timing side to accept a 1/8” ID hose (1/4” OD), ran it half way across the spindle. Gravity fed.
Like drilling the bolt, only lazier. No weakening.
 
I agree with concours. Its a pain in the ass to get oil into that setup through such a small hole. How often do you have to do it. The 30 ml bottle mounted under the seat is far easier to fill and you can see when it needs topping up again.
 
Are we away again, already .... first reply suggested taking it apart during off season and having a look .... just about every possible approach has now been talked through .... .... mine has had waterproof grease in for last 15 yrs or so , zero sideways movement ( still tight) no drip .... someday will take it down and put new bushes and oil in .... until then I try not to waste my limited thinking on it .... once again Joe , good luck with yours !
 
L.A.B. said:
I also don't see the need to get too scientific. Just remove as much grease as possible (if that's what it is) and fill with oil.
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Of course there's no need to get too scientific. I agree. We can all hop on our bikes and ride them. When something breaks or becomes too aggravating we don't even have to fix it ourselves. Just take it to some mechanic who probably knows less than you do. But some enjoy thinking about these things. For me it's one of the reasons I read about solutions to problems I actually don't have. And like the constant swing arm bushing oiler described above, sometimes they're pretty neat. And, as far as I've been reading, it goes aling with advanced practises that are right on the money. Will the swing arm last so much longer? Probably not. But I think it's pretty innocent thinking about these things and discussing them with others on a site like this. If it's not to your liking, just skip over it. If I'm so wrong about this, then please explain to me what the harm is.
 
Usually, when there is swing arm wear, it is not the bushings but the spindle that wears (mainly on the drive chain side). This is because the bushings tend to pick up grit, and then act as a tool holder of that grit. That grit, embedded into the bushing, then cuts the steel of the spindle. So, you might remove the pin, inspect it, maybe replace it, thoroughly brush and clean the interior of the bushings with solvent, maybe even some heat, and reassemble. Back when, young and short on money, we would leave the bushings alone and rotate or flip the pins/spindles to get new wearing surfaces.
 
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Here is the result of grease. The bushings were quite sloppy. After pulling the spindle, I pushed the grease out and cleaned it up with WD40. In the bottom picture, you can see the grease plug in the hole - that remained after running it through with a round brass brush and using a brass brush on the outside, both with WD40. In the top picture, the left side has a dark area - that is very rough. The dark area on the right side is not as rough. In any case, both the spindle and bushings had to be changed. To me, just digging/pushing the grease out of the spindle and filling with oil accomplishes nothing as the small holes are how the oil gets to the bushings and a grease plug will stop that.

Oiling the swingarm bushing.
Oiling the swingarm bushing.
 
Joe Schlaberdowski said:
But I think it's pretty innocent thinking about these things and discussing them with others on a site like this. If it's not to your liking, just skip over it.
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I wouldn't disagree and if it hadn't been to my liking then I wouldn't have taken the time to contribute to this thread and several of your other threads so I think your comment is unjustified.

Joe Schlaberdowski said:
If I'm so wrong about this, then please explain to me what the harm is.
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Where am I supposed to have said it was wrong? It seems you have taken my comment the wrong way. All I said was I didn't see the need to get too scientific meaning that in this instance the logical course of action, in my opinion, would be to clean out the grease as best as you can and then relubricate and not worry too much about the possible effects of some grease remaining.
 
marshg246 said:
To me, just digging/pushing the grease out of the spindle and filling with oil accomplishes nothing as the small holes are how the oil gets to the bushings and a grease plug will stop that.
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If the small holes are plugged but spindle drilling is free from grease then oil can still get to both bushes at the outer ends where it will be absorbed throughout each bush.
 
L.A.B. said:
If the small holes are plugged but spindle drilling is free from grease then oil can still get to both bushes at the outer ends where it will be absorbed throughout each bush.
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Now you've made my head hurt - I know that's fun for you :)

Yes, I suppose the very end of the bushings on a pre-MKIII would get oil by going around the end of the spindle which means there never was a need for the small holes. I can see your point on the timing side now that you point that out, not so sure about the drive side without taking the primary all apart and cleaning the grease out of that end. I also don't see much of a way to clean the grease out without pulling the spindle like I said earlier.
 
Yes I suspect more aggressive wear with grease .... since my Norton is almost exclusively nice Sunday ride bike , rarely get to run 2-3 tanks of fuel through it , explains why after all these years no wear in evidence, yet ... some times I do get weary reading same postulations over and over maybe from different angle but still same .... this thread topic has been covered more times than I can remember going back to birth of forum ..... not exactly sure why I replied ....
 
Craig said:
Yes I suspect more aggressive wear with grease .... since my Norton is almost exclusively nice Sunday ride bike , rarely get to run 2-3 tanks of fuel through it , explains why after all these years no wear in evidence, yet ... some times I do get weary reading same postulations over and over maybe from different angle but still same .... this thread topic has been covered more times than I can remember going back to birth of forum ..... not exactly sure why I replied ....
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I mostly agree with you, but then there's really no need to allow any new threads at all because it's very likely that everything has been covered at least once. Maybe someone could convert the collective knowledge to a book or Wiki and we all can just use that for answers to our questions and to provide social interactions with our interests :)
 
I'm curious, still, the benefits of a continuous oil feed from a mounted bottle. My understanding its that the oilite bushes, being porous,
absorb oil and really only require lubrication a couple of times a year (depending on use). I remove the zerk type oil fitting and, using a
squeeze bottle with a tiny nozzle, squeeze in oil until the cavity is full to the filler hole. Replace the oil fitting and ride. No big deal.
Then the oil slowly oozes out past the spindle cap o-ring until empty, fouling the spokes and rim. That takes a month or two. Repeat cycle,
cleaning often.
 
marshg246 said:
Now you've made my head hurt - I know that's fun for you
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It's not done on purpose. ;)

marshg246 said:
Yes, I suppose the very end of the bushings on a pre-MKIII would get oil by going around the end of the spindle which means there never was a need for the small holes. I can see your point on the timing side now that you point that out, not so sure about the drive side without taking the primary all apart and cleaning the grease out of that end.
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Please bear with me as I'm a Mk3 owner (that has a sealed pivot) but if the timing-side end cap and long bolt were to be removed then if the spindle was cleaned out through to the drive-side even if a small amount of grease remained at that end of the assembly it would eventually be diluted by the oil.
 
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lazyeye6 said:
I'm curious, still, the benefits of a continuous oil feed from a mounted bottle. My understanding its that the oilite bushes, being porous,
absorb oil and really only require lubrication a couple of times a year (depending on use). I remove the zerk type oil fitting and, using a
squeeze bottle with a tiny nozzle, squeeze in oil until the cavity is full to the filler hole. Replace the oil fitting and ride. No big deal.
Then the oil slowly oozes out past the spindle cap o-ring until empty, fouling the spokes and rim. That takes a month or two. Repeat cycle,
cleaning often.
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I don't see the need either unless you have a leak. It sounds like you have a significant leak. You probably need new O-rings, or you have a rough spot, or the through bolt is not tight enough (be careful, they break easily, been there, done that).
 
marshg246 said:
I mostly agree with you, but then there's really no need to allow any new threads at all because it's very likely that everything has been covered at least once. Maybe someone could convert the collective knowledge to a book or Wiki and we all can just use that for answers to our questions and to provide social interactions with our interests :)
Click to expand...

That would be no fun ! .... was trying to point out , that sometimes it seems posters are toying with members .... that all , never too old to learn something new , that’s for sure , plus we all seem to approach and see things differently ....
 
Because I am extremely lazy I drilled the centre bolt and connected it to a small master cylinder resovoir under the seat as others have done
I can't kneel down any more and this makes life easier for me
I have previously neglected to oil the swing arm pin and I paid the price when it wore out/rusted on the drive side of the pin
So now with the easy access to oil the swing arm I have no excuse!!
 
Craig said:
Are we away again, already .... first reply suggested taking it apart during off season and having a look .... just about every possible approach has now been talked through .... .... mine has had waterproof grease in for last 15 yrs or so , zero sideways movement ( still tight) no drip .... someday will take it down and put new bushes and oil in .... until then I try not to waste my limited thinking on it .... once again Joe , good luck with yours !
Click to expand...
What's good is what works
 
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I took Comnoz's advice and ran a bead of silicone over the oitside of the Welsh plugs where they join the swingarm, as that is where my leaks had always been greatest.
 
OilLite bushings do not require a steady input of oil. The purpose for which they were designed in the 1930's was for locations where regular oiling was difficult/impossible. IMO the original Norton method is the best way to lube them - with the fitting and something to FORCE some oil in under moderate(!!!) pressure. It's a better way to ensure a bit of oil, which is all that is needed, gets to both bushings
 
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