Oil pressure feed jets/cams

Haveing a few minutes after lunch,and reading the forum post's it appears quite a few Commando's have cam/follower trouble.
Here is a question: would it be a easy mod to drill into the front crank case's and install four oil jets that can be feed from the oil pressure relief..so instead of dumping the excess pressure into the timing case..it could be feed direct to the cam lobes?
Its just a thought...or as anyone already done this?
I allways considerd a total dry sump idea a bad idea as on start up it takes a while before oil gets where it should..at least with a bit in the sump its thrown about,,ie onto the cam

I've read about some guys building a tub around the cam to hold the oil that comes down the lifter tunnels.

The Ford Pinto 1600 / 2000 / 2300 o.h.c. has a 1/8 in dia pipe running along with 1/16 drillings aimed at the follower / cam interface. When the pipe cokes up the cam goes. Wasnt untill the Mk 5 theyd licked the follower / cam wear problem .
So , the Nortons not unique in that.
Recoing a Cortina 4 its lethal NOT to replace the oil feed pipe, were $ 21 , now last time I looked , $ 80 . :shock: :lol:

ANYWAY , have a glare at one, may be possible to squeeze somthing similar in . ?

Ford eventually fitted fancy lighter better quality heat treated cam followers , and cam .A message there somewhere ! .

The Hollow long pushrod Norton Followers perhaps ?? Anglia 105E Cosworth forular something engines reved to 10.000 ,
So the fact its pushrod isnt really something to whine about .Decent valve springs shimmed correctly for High Performance
use would be considered normal in any automobile, Std soon go soft and bewildered with constant red lineing .

NOT that anyone here does that . :lol: :shock:

john robert bould said:

instead of dumping the excess pressure into the timing case

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Only the 850 Mk3 (or a Commando fitted with a Mk3 timing cover) vents its OPRV oil into the timing case.

All other Commando models deliver the oil back to the oil pump feed inlet.

Some have drilled cam down center then passages to the lobes with oil fed in the end where breather hose goes on some models. Best I can glean - within crankshaft whip rpm range oil splash and drain down work ok and that most the wear occurs on dry start ups so the oil tub is good idea. Not sure if there is enough space to allow internal oil pipe sprayer. I've considered drilling small drains in the lifters to oil the lobes.

Have ya ever looked close at the tiny holes that feed the cam bushes? I opened Peels up and grooved the case walls to try to funnel more oil to drip drain into them.

hobot said:

Some have drilled cam down center then passages to the lobes with oil fed in the end where breather hose goes on some models. Best I can glean - within crankshaft whip rpm range oil splash and drain down work ok and that most the wear occurs on dry start ups so the oil tub is good idea. Not sure if there is enough space to allow internal oil pipe sprayer. I've considered drilling small drains in the lifters to oil the lobes.

Have ya ever looked close at the tiny holes that feed the cam bushes? I opened Peels up and grooved the case walls to try to funnel more oil to drip drain into them.

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Steve,I have seen Triumph followers with oil hole, and where the oil is forced out the lobe as a ridge,proving the system works.
But as you say,Room to install a oil tube.?

Hi, I think Paul Dunstall had realized some jets to pupply oil towards the camshaft or was it on the domiracer 500 ??

http://www.etmoteur.fr/images/domiracer_head_lub.jpg

Sorry about the domiracer , oil was " only " supplied by the end of the camshaft on the left side.....

Triump was Ex cam pressure feed . As they said that side was warmer , therefore wore .
However Pre-Units didnt suffer this malady . Good reason to avoid unit construction ,
besides there harsher vibration .
A TR6P base gasket went at the passage , as it didnt have the tube spggot fitted at update.
Oil jetted forward to front axle at 60 mph cruise . :lol:

The dreaded drip & fling oiling system . .

These nasty little Fords , specifically the ' KENT ' push rod engines , 1600 Cross Flow (as per pommy M/C )
The last series was " 711M " which would pull 8.500 rpm , as had Steel Main Bearing Caps .previous was 169M
The Cam Followers look about like a flat head Nail Head & stem, and are a increased stem diameter , as the
earlier ones had a tendancy to knock the foot ( head) off , when reving the snot out of them.Problem being
floating , the follower coming down as the lobe came around , and swipeing it off. Solution ; make it tougher.

As we said , they did. Valves are comparable size ( mass ), so presumably these followers would be adequate
to fit to stuffer blocks in the barrel , useing coustom pushrods .For those who must improve the breed .


looking at a oil pump for that engine will induce frowns & bewilderment seeing the Commando pump in comparison.

a 100 % reserve capeability in flow could assist the engines longevity, as well as lower temperatures from oil conducting heat to a larger oil tank fed fresh air for cooling . ! :shock:

seen a 1300 Ford in a Anglia hill climb car running 9.000 rpm plus , 45 Weber Carbs .came on the cam about 6.000 :lol:

So , summary , I think the Oil Pumps a bit archaic , and a big alloy oil tank under the seat rather than all that unnessesary road equipment would improve things . 8)

marinatlas said:

http://www.etmoteur.fr/images/domiracer_head_lub.jpg

Sorry about the domiracer , oil was " only " supplied by the end of the camshaft on the left side.....

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The 500 Domiracer that completed the 1961 TT had a needle rollers fed on L.H. side by an oil pipe from oil pipe that feeds to top on Commandos & a hollow full race cam and that was drilled through with holes at cam base or lobes so as not to rely on splash.
This bike was later brought by P Dunsall just before Norton’s moved from Wolverhampton to Plumstead.

You can go to a lot of trouble making trick pressure fed cams. Of just switch to longer lasting radiused lifters with tappet blocks that have oil holes directing lubrication to the cam lobes - end of problem.

jseng1 said:

You can go to a lot of trouble making trick pressure fed cams. Of just switch to longer lasting radiused lifters with tappet blocks that have oil holes directing lubrication to the cam lobes - end of problem.

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jsengi. how doe's oil get onto the cam within a few minutes of start up? am i guessing oil enters the pump feed side . feed up to the rockers,pools up in the rocker space untill it flows down the push rod tunnel, finaly through the holes onto the cam? If so thats a lot of dry cam turns.

john robert bould said:

jseng1 said:

You can go to a lot of trouble making trick pressure fed cams. Of just switch to longer lasting radiused lifters with tappet blocks that have oil holes directing lubrication to the cam lobes - end of problem.

Click to expand...

jsengi. how doe's oil get onto the cam within a few minutes of start up? am i guessing oil enters the pump feed side . feed up to the rockers,pools up in the rocker space untill it flows down the push rod tunnel, finaly through the holes onto the cam? If so thats a lot of dry cam turns.

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Within minutes? milliseconds would be better, high loads and low surface speed are when you really need the oil there, however since it is boundary lubrication the volume of oil actually required is very little and large amounts wont make it any better

Jim's tappet block drains holes are very clever even if oil takes some seconds to flow out them. Dry starts and lugging operation are the main wear times not normal use as cams need run in ~20 min over 2000 rpm or else. Racers also need some lube help where lifters crest the lobes but only injected oil out the lifter face would seem to help that beyond just splash and drip supply. LIkely main racer wear is due to the cam flex unsquaring the lifter contact. At some translation speeds the oil can heat up to vaporize or even diesel explode. Oh if only our Nortons could attain such turning speed to worry about that.

There are micro finishes with dry friction impregnated coating I'm going to try just for kicks. Past Peel had a lot of this on her innards and new one will too.
http://www.professionalmotorsport-expo. ... 3/pohl.pdf

jseng1 said:

You can go to a lot of trouble making trick pressure fed cams. Of just switch to longer lasting radiused lifters with tappet blocks that have oil holes directing lubrication to the cam lobes - end of problem.

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The photo was taken after the parts were tested for a year - wear doesn't seem to be a problem - they look like new. Also note that JS cams are hardfaced steel - not just the usual cheap soft cast iron. The radiused lifters fair much better than the original flat jobs and so does the cam because the loads are spread out more evenly - on the other hand - flat lifters take a beating because of the different geometry and the pointy cam lobes

The subject of centering the cam on the lobes is up for discussion. When cam end play is excessive you can make a new spacer or shim that fits inside the case. Shims that fit are very hard to find. Seastrom has them in .010" part # 5702-186-10 but they are soft. You can place these inside the case but its not practicle to use them on the sprocket side of the case because they do not want to locate correctly on the cam shoulder on installation and can fall out of place and jam up - preventing the sprocket from reaching the shoulder. Lets hear everyones free advice.

I used to use shims to keep the cam end play below .010", but now I just make a new beveled spacer to replace the stock one inside the case, with whatever thickness it takes to reduce the end play. I never had a problem with the shims, but they just didn't seem like good engineering practice.

Ken