Norton Commando by Mick Duckworth 2nd Edition (2017)

Hello all
A new edition of Mick Duckworth's book on the Commando has been published.
It is available in softback from Andover Norton for £14.50 plus postage.
https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/news/
Looks like a good deal.
Andy

yes and I'm in it .................................

I have the first edition, is the second different enough for me to shell out?

And now, after months of no stock, we have printed a new, revised edition:


Now hardcover again and re-written by Mick taking later developments (Garner's demise etc) in. But as in every print run there is always that detail you miss. The passage on Page 130 beginning:

"The maker’s plate riveted to the steering head carries a build date and chassis number, while the engine number is visible on the left side of the crankcase immediately below the cylinder barrel joint. Even a knowledgeable buyer will benefit from taking along a well-informed helper to run a second pair of eyes over the prospective purchase."

was to be revised to:

"As well as being stamped on the left side of the crankcase immediately below the cylinder barrel joint, the engine number is stamped into the right side of the steering head on early models, while on later machines it appears, along with the build date, on a red maker’s VIN plate riveted to the steering head. Be aware that plates can be illicitly changed. Prior to 1974, the frame number was the same as the engine number, but most 850s have a frame number, preceded by 850F, stamped on the steering head, which does not match the engine number. This has been known to cause confusion, resulting in errors on documents. Even a knowledgeable buyer will benefit from taking along a well-informed helper to run a second pair of eyes over the prospective purchase."

But somehow this was overlooked, whilst the new index and a host of other alterations were integrated.

Apologies!
Joe Seifert

Correct me if I'm wrong Joe, but even the revised paragraph is questionable in places.

Wasn't there a point of time with the MK3 (as the company went into administration) when there was some kind of correlation between the frame number stamped by Verlicchi and the number stamped on the engine/gearbox/VIN tag?

The sad truth is that in many cases especially with import in to the USA, the VIN tag cannot be used, as it is not classed as permanent like a frame stamping is.
Furthermore, on several occasions back-in-the-day, as part of the export processing, officials were supplied with list of the Verlicchi frame numbers, so that is what they were registered against.

I get your point about the VIN plates being "illicitly changed" but am I right in saying that there are differences in design, wording and layout between some of the originals and those that you at Andover supply?
There are still further differences with what RGM (who seems to have some original New Old Stock items) and Les Emery (who just makes it up as he goes along) are supplying too.
That could be a good topic for one of your future articles!

Keep up the good work, we appreciate what you do!

gforce said:

Wasn't there a point of time with the MK3 (as the company went into administartion) when there was some kind of correlation between the frame number stamped by Verlicchi and the number stamped on the engine/gearbox/VIN tag?

Click to expand...

The change to a matching frame number stamp (from "332363" according to Joe) would have been around May '75.
I don't know the reason for the change, possibly because the frames were no longer manufactured by Verlicchi?
Perhaps NVT wasn't paying for them in a timely manner or the price had risen to the point where it was no longer economically viable to buy from Verlicchi, however, it would be nice to know the actual reason for the change if known by AN.

The "inferior Verlicchi frame" saga has been going for many years, with tall stories thrown in by an ex-welder of Reynolds, but I still haven't found anybody who can tell the real story. I guess the late Keith Blair could have done, but thinking about it I have one more living person to ask- these are getting rarer now. A faint hope, though, because he wasn't involved in production or purchasing at the time.

The non-matching numbers may have the same reason as those pre-war: the frames were manufactured, painted, and stored, and were taken out of their stores and brought to the production track as needed. Only then would they be mated to the next engine down the track.

ZFD said:

And now, after months of no stock, we have printed a new, revised edition:

Motorcycle parts and spares for Norton motorbikes - Andover Norton Spare Parts - Andover Norton Motorcycles Parts - Original Andover Norton Parts

Motorcycle parts and spares for Andover Norton motorbikes: Andover Norton manufactures and supplies all Factory Spare Parts for Norton motorcycles built before 2002.

nvt-motorcycles.com

Now hardcover again and re-written by Mick taking later developments (Garner's demise etc) in. But as in every print run there is always that detail you miss. The passage on Page 130 beginning:

"The maker’s plate riveted to the steering head carries a build date and chassis number, while the engine number is visible on the left side of the crankcase immediately below the cylinder barrel joint. Even a knowledgeable buyer will benefit from taking along a well-informed helper to run a second pair of eyes over the prospective purchase."

was to be revised to:

"As well as being stamped on the left side of the crankcase immediately below the cylinder barrel joint, the engine number is stamped into the right side of the steering head on early models, while on later machines it appears, along with the build date, on a red maker’s VIN plate riveted to the steering head. Be aware that plates can be illicitly changed. Prior to 1974, the frame number was the same as the engine number, but most 850s have a frame number, preceded by 850F, stamped on the steering head, which does not match the engine number. This has been known to cause confusion, resulting in errors on documents. Even a knowledgeable buyer will benefit from taking along a well-informed helper to run a second pair of eyes over the prospective purchase."

But somehow this was overlooked, whilst the new index and a host of other alterations were integrated.

Apologies!
Joe Seifert

Click to expand...

Not sure if it's wording that I am reading not as intended but the revised paragraph is wrong in my opinion. Those bikes with the red certification label should always show the same number as the engine. The number stamped into the frame (850s only and supposedly very early Commandos) until May 1975 did not match the engine if the frame number started with 850F (symbols left out). In theory, Reynolds 850 frames (in theory no "F") did match, but I can find no bike to prove that. Also, the red certification has multiple orientations - readable from the drive side, from the timing side, installed towards the drive side installed towards the timing side.

L.A.B. said:

The change to a matching frame number stamp (from "332363" according to Joe) would have been around May '75.
I don't know the reason for the change, possibly because the frames were no longer manufactured by Verlicchi?
Perhaps NVT wasn't paying for them in a timely manner or the price had risen to the point where it was no longer economically viable to buy from Verlicchi, however, it would be nice to know the actual reason for the change if known by AN.

Click to expand...

In my survey, I have:
332351, May 1975, frame number does not match
332472, May 1975, frame number does match

So, assuming that the info I was given is accurate, the switch did happen in May 1974 and 332363 is plausible.

I really hope that someone will give me more May 1975 info - the more info - the more reliability. I would also like any info on ant pre-May 1975 850 with the frame number stamped in the headstock that does not include the "F".

Commando Survey