new forum?

[BillT]

I like the bike-build projects, and am OK with them staying in the main forum, but this IS Jerry's baby, and he should do whatever he feels comfortable with.

Great site, BTW.

 

[RennieK]

I don't know Jerry, I hate to see you do any extra work for one thing. I like it the way it is Commando stuff all in one.

The fact that fullauto, gp, coznoz? or who ever are doing what they do as a business doesn't bother me. These guys are prime contributers to this forum.

I've been self employed for 80% of my adult life and know all too well there are different levels of professionals in any given field. Not every profession has a recognized apprenticeship or degree certificate that you get from said U of What Ever and there certainly isn't any "Official Authorized Norton Restoration and Repair Certificate/Degree/Union etc. etc." This day and age we have what is called "Right to Work" and anyone can hang a shingle on the street and be open for business in many fields. If you look at 1/2 the user names of guys selling bikes on ebay a good many of em appear to be in business (or think they are) fixing up and flipping bikes. Do they rebuild engines and trannies the same way Mick Hemmings, Steve Maney, CNW or Norman White does? Not likely but neither these ebay specialists NOR the latter named pros are active contributers to this forum and they certainly aren't highlighting their build procedures like GP and a few of our own others have been doing here.

The beauty of the internet and forums like this is the sharing of ideas and knowledge. When we all do our part it snow balls and we all get back tenfold. (excluding L.A.B. because IF he could increase his knowledge by tenfold his head would explode!) As forum members we owe it to each other to put aside our jealousy, envy, spite, hatred, distain, that voodoo shit and all nastyness and when Joe Blow posts a thread on how he just re-did this box and it's all zipped up lickety split, John Doe (no relation to Jerry) shouldn't come on and FLAME HIM because he didn't know enough to check the end float on the xyz shaft. Instead he should gracefully educate him by stating "you know when I'm at that stage of a rebuild I always check the end float on the XYZ shaft as they are 99% likely to be worn and ready to cause massive failure of the blab blab blab". SHARE THE KNOWLEDGE we will all see who the clever boy is and he will get respect and appreciation. We ALL gain from this type of constructive criticism and less bikes will blow up.

And now ...a short story:

A new bike shop moved in across from an existing bike shop
The new guy was charging A THOUSAND DOLLARS for Norton top end rebuilds!!! and he was getting the work too.
The existing shop put up a big sign in his window stating "Norton Top End Rebuilds - $500.00
The next day the shop across the street put a big sign in his window stating: We Fix $500.00 Top End Rebuilds

 

[oldman]

It is not a crime for people to earn a wage from someones hobby .Good luck to them.

I used to work on vintage Bentleys those cars are just for enthusiasts I didnt feel bad about earning money out of it.

To read about the mods etc that anyone professional or not is the bonus of this site.

Keep up the posts resto or mods Happy Days

 

[Lurker828]

My vote is to keep the forums as they are. If individual members don't like reading build threads from other individual members, let them use their God-given ability to choose NOT to click on that thread. Personally, I feel that those threads are the basis for the strength of this forum. I don't consider CNW/Jim Comstocks posts on their breather, timing gears, and hydraulic clutch developments as advertising but rather as how they addressed the design and engineering required for their solutions (and, yes, I'm sorely tempted!) Likewise, some of GrandPaul's customers want some non-standard bikes and I enjoy seeing the goals, issues, and solutions on those builds.

I can support the suggested compromise that "purveyors" be identified in their sign-ons, but I believe that just about everyone with a commercial concern already does so.

 

[DonOR]

I would leave things the way they are Jerry.

The for-profit guys here know and share a lot, are usually clear about what they do, and if I needed outside services, its always good to know another outside source. If one for profit guy trashes another, that simply sucks, and is poor sportmanship, and bad business - I know, I've had my own profitable business for over 20 years.

I strongly agree with earlier posts, that abusive, personal attacks should not be tolerated, and those who blog that way 86'd.

ride safely, today it's 72º, partly cloudy with a 10 mph southeast wind.

Cheers,

Don

 

[RennieK]

Having businesses like Born Again Bikes post their builds in a separate forum would split up a lot of common thread types. All the regular members (who may eventually sell their projects also) would still be posting their build threads in the commando area so there would be 2 areas to look for for these threads. There seems to be an increase in these types of threads of late. I don't see the point in splitting them.

I like L.A.B.'s suggestion of "branding" the businesses so you can see who these people are and recognize them as businesses. Although grandpaul already does this in his signature that stamps all his posts. Maybe there are others who are more anonymous.

 

[sidreilley]

Maybe I missed something, but I'm not sure what the problem is here. I really like this forum..just like it is... It has given me almost the sum total of what I know about Nortons, in it's current form. It's quite easy to tell who is making a living (or at least money) from the Norton hobby so I don't feel anyone is being hoodwinked. And often these individuals are the best sources of information and answers (next to LAB) so somehow excluding them would be to everyone's detriment. Now Jerry is putting an awful lot into keeping this forum up and running, and while I have no idea of how these things really work, I do feel it not fair to expect him to bear the entire burden while others make money on his efforts. But it is up to him to decide what he needs and then to implement it. I will fully support that decision but, as I began, it's great now so the fewer changes, the better.

 

[Diamondjet]

I'm just appreciative of the effort you've made to maintain this forum. If it's easier for you to separate those postings it's fine with me. It doesn't bother me to go thru them because I learn a little from each contributor, whether it's commercial or not.

 

[ntst8]

I voted yes to a separate forum a day or two back and have since been following with interest.
My thinking was that a separate spot for commercial people to be overtly commercial wouldn't be a bad thing - effectively a location for advertising, to announce new products etc.
But as a number of others have said things largely work very well at present and it would be a shame if our Norton professionals felt that they could not continue their generous input to the general forum.

 

[plj850]

Gentlemen...

This really isn't the place to be trading personal insults with one another.

It's not helpful and it's certainly not constructive.

Any further posts which contain such remarks will be deleted.

I can only agree with L.A.B's comments the personal insults and bitching is only relativeley new to the forum. I have seen stuff posted that is being directed at other members and is totally uncalled for. By all means post replies with relevant comments where you disagree with someones posts and by all means point out errors in what a forum member has posted( L.A.B has corrected me at least twice but owning a Commando is a learning process and there are guys on this forum who know a great deal and I am happy to be corrected and hence learn.)
As far as a seperate forum for 'business' members and 'non-business members' why? When an individual rebuilds an engine and sells the bike they may have taken short cuts as well so if a 'business' member posts covering a rebuild anyone is free to comment and engage in discussion as to the pro's and con's of the rebuild.

Cheers Paul

 

[RennieK]

Also Paul is listed as a proprietorship which is just a common citizen with a tax number (so the government can tax you more)

 

[dave M]

It seems that everyone is skirting around the real issue that provoked this debate and so I, reluctantly, will be the first one to give a full explanation of my own position. I am one of the people who took objection and mailed the site administrators regarding Grandpaul's 'Greatest Bike in The World' post. I took objection on a number of grounds; the first being what amounted to a hijacking of a popular thread, with a topic that was completely unrelated. The second objection was that this was posted on the 'Norton Commando Motorcycles' page, despite having no Norton Commando content whatsoever and the third, and strongest, objection was that if one followed the link, there was little in the way of any bona fide content, as purported, and instead one was led to a sub-page of Paul's own business site - This gave the impression of self-promotion by stealth.

I generally enjoy Paul's postings and he has made many valid contributions to the site. I'm sure his intentions were good and that he simply let his enthusiasm run amok on this occasion. I probably should have P.M.'d him at the time, but I don't really want to be a self-appointed arbiter of standards on a site where I am a guest and simply enjoying my hobby.

I don't think the site needs to change, I think we, the members, need to be more vigilant.

If all of us adopt the mantra "Think twice, write once" there will probably be fewer misunderstandings.

 

[grandpaul]

I'm really appreciative of ALL the comments and just want to say:

A) Yes, I was over-exuberant with the new contest. Recall, the contest on this site was my idea (although based on a suggestion by Cookie)

B) My post for the contest should have been in the "Other" folder.

C) I still like the idea of one section JUST for member's major ongoing project threads.

D) Sorry for the hassle

E) Thanx for the forum!

(Whatever Jerry decides on this issue is fine with me)

 

[gregmac]

If it would mean that anyone in a related business can't give helpfull advice on this forum then I would say ''no new forum''.
Grandpaul is always the first to welcome a new member, often the first to give advice and has submitted great projects including ''bike of the year''. If I have to keep checking another forum to see what he is up to I probably wouldn't bother. Would it also mean that others with a financial interest in Nortons can't let us Know they have parts available or this is the way we do it in the business? If it only means advertising their wares I might change my mind but as it stands ''no new forum''.
Greg

 

[rvich]

Do I think that an area for businesses to hang out their banners is a good idea? Yes, and I would support those businesses as much as possible. Do I want to see those businesses excluded from posting in the general forum? No.

People who make money from any enterprise also put a lot into gaining their education. When those same people share that experience freely with those of us who lack the same exerience it is to benefit of the community. (Read the threads on crankcase breathers if you don't think so) This is not to say that some of the hobbyists here are not on par with the "pros". But I strongly feel we would all lose if we chose to exlude. Next you have to decide if there is a problem with a racer who has sponsors. Then you need to decide if a person who works at the parts counter fits in. Next it will be some welder who repairs frames, or some guy who paints your tanks. It wont end, cuz we all have to make a living doing something and some of it will bleed into our posts. (I hope) I agree with a previous comment that we just need to be more vigilant. We also need to be a bit foregiving. Even those of us who share a common language don't always express ourselves in and elegant or proper manner.
I for one have mixed my work and my hobbies my entire life. Half the time I can't even tell which I am working on.

Russ

 

[Chris]

Hi

This website is one of the most richly diverse, most enjoyable sites to visit & read. I believe its because people can ask & post any question without being worried about being ridiculed. No superior behaviour or nasty replys , its facinating to see how other contries view a Commando,ie cant just buy the part what else can I fit. I love peoples builds especially specials but the basics & how too information is first class.
Leave it as it is but put a big logo ie supplier with the avitar.
all the best Chris

 

[swooshdave]

Hi

I believe its because people can ask & post any question without being worried about being ridiculed. No superior behaviour or nasty replys

Thankfully that is rare. But unfortunately it does happen.

Jerry, can we close this poll and leave the forum the way it is now? The people have spoken and wish this from our benevolent dictator. :mrgreen:

 

[Jerry Doe]

Hello All,

I think you fixed this yourselves. I see no need for another forum. Just make sure you all post in the right place. Only thing that is going to change is a donation button will appear. Donations will help cover the costs of web hosting etc.

I am taking this thread out of sticky mode---Ride safe, be happy, cheers

Jerry

 

[pbmw]

I'm a shop owner. I'm also on a number of other forums. I don't normally promote my business, but if I can offer a service to someone that needs it, I will. I don't really see an issue with it.

 

[swooshdave]

Hello All,

I think you fixed this yourselves. I see no need for another forum. Just make sure you all post in the right place. Only thing that is going to change is a donation button will appear. Donations will help cover the costs of web hosting etc.

I am taking this thread out of sticky mode---Ride safe, be happy, cheers

Jerry

This may sound weird but I actually wouldn't seeing ads on the forum.