Low price 961

They have a contact obligation with Norton. I’ll be surprised if they sell it to you. Been down that road. Glad you like the risers we put of Richard’s bike. My dad has the same ones he made a few sets and when Richard came we gave him a set for his journey. I personally like the clip ons better. But for long trips I use standard bars tilted back.

richard-7 said:

They have a contact obligation with Norton. I’ll be surprised if they sell it to you. Been down that road. Glad you like the risers we put of Richard’s bike. My dad has the same ones he made a few sets and when Richard came we gave him a set for his journey. I personally like the clip ons better. But for long trips I use standard bars tilted back.

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I understand the appeal of the clip-ons. My first Norton was a PR that came with them, but I was a lot younger then. Now I have no real choice. I have to have a reasonable upright riding position or I can't ride at all. I manage with clip-ons for landspeed events, but only because it's such a short duration.

Might be right about the dongle and software. Guess I'll just have to wait and see.

Ken

Wouldn’t be surprised if this is ‘a problem’ for them Ken, we’ll have to wait n see.

But even if it is, surely all you have to do is buy a new relevant ECU from them. Probably not a bad idea anyway as then you’ll really know what you’ve got, have a warranty with it, etc?

lcrken said:

I understand the appeal of the clip-ons. My first Norton was a PR that came with them, but I was a lot younger then. Now I have no real choice. I have to have a reasonable upright riding position or I can't ride at all. I manage with clip-ons for landspeed events, but only because it's such a short duration.

Might be right about the dongle and software. Guess I'll just have to wait and see.

Ken

Click to expand...

The 961 map options are pretty decent. When getting remapped be sure to get them to update the BIN file. Most people that remap know that by now but its good for the customers to know too. I’ve tried a lot of the maps and am sticking with 077 with revision 0116. Not sure if there is a later revision, if so please share.

The maps developed by Norton are intended for Norton aftermarket Commando or Dominator systems only. Using their maps with other exhaust systems will have mixed results. Having had problems with my SBN exhaust I spoke with Matt Capri and Carlos years ago about a possible new map that they might produce for the full SBN exhaust. They were not considering the development of a dedicated map for their exhaust, instead they recommended the Norton factory 090 map. They recognized that it still was not perfect but it was the best available or likely to be available. Norton intended the 090 map only for use with their Dominator model.

I experimented with my full SBN system using the stock Commando map which was way way too lean and resulted in a great deal for surging at several rpm points in the power range. The 077 map eliminated the surging, but still produced very difficult cold starting/idling, and poor cold running from 2800-3600 RPM. Things improved markedly when I had the 090 map installed. However, even with the 090 map I still experience some cold starting/idling and running until the engine is up to operating temps.

It would be beautiful to be able to access the SC ECU directly and program the map on a dyno. Keeping my fingers crossed that the dongle and software can be sourced from the manufacturer.

Great answer

Matt Capri told me on the phone that he designed the maps 90 and 91 for his pipes. I was told by Norton Factory that only their maps, 76 and 77, could be advised upon and they will not help me with any other mapping. Also, the bike is running differently with the SBN generation 2 pipes than it was with the SBN DS pipes. I'm getting the high idle like I did with map 77, only not as frequently or not as high. Sticks on 1800 to 2k sometimes and idles at 1450 instead of 1250. Can't be sure, but the dealership has twice remapped me with 77 by mistake after working on the bike. The mechanic that did my last job is no longer with them. Stay tuned. To be continued.

Curtis,

My Dyno guy said he has worked on the 961 before and said the wild idle is an issue he has seen on other bikes as well.
It has to do with the IAC programmed in the ECU.
Separate from the main fuel map.
It controls air to the engine at idle.
The IAC takes sensor data from the the airbox temp, cylinder head temp, and O2 sensors and uses the data to send signals to the throttle valve servo.
How it is using the data is the issue, and this effects cold idling and hot wild idling.
To access the IAC and make modifications requires the dongle, software, and interface cable for that ECU (SC or OMEX).

Right now, only Norton can access the IAC and make changes.
If the interface cable and software were available we could create custom maps and make any adjustments for any exhaust, or engine tune.

If the wild idle is due to the Idle Air Controls use of data from the sensor mentioned... then my question would be; are the sensor good? Richard has demonstrated clearly that sensors can be at the root of numerous ‘mysterious’ issues. Maybe this is another one of them?

BritTwit said:

Curtis,

My Dyno guy said he has worked on the 961 before and said the wild idle is an issue he has seen on other bikes as well.
It has to do with the IAC programmed in the ECU.
Separate from the main fuel map.
It controls air to the engine at idle.
The IAC takes sensor data from the the airbox temp, cylinder head temp, and O2 sensors and uses the data to send signals to the throttle valve servo.
How it is using the data is the issue, and this effects cold idling and hot wild idling.
To access the IAC and make modifications requires the dongle, software, and interface cable for that ECU (SC or OMEX).

Right now, only Norton can access the IAC and make changes.
If the interface cable and software were available we could create custom maps and make any adjustments for any exhaust, or engine tune.

Click to expand...

The BIN file and bosch sensors fixed this in every single case we had. Hence why I shared the sensor numbers with everyone. The other item to note is the idle screw plays a part in higher idle. Even though that is NOT the idle screw. Follow my manual and you will have positive results. My bike had all the same issues as everyone elses when I got it.

The adventure continues. I received this reply from BKS:

"Hi Ken,

I believe they did use an SC Delta ECU for the Norton, the problem will be that not all the CAN-USB leads are the same, the lead must match the ECU.

I suggest you contact SC Delta directly so they can advise you.

I will refund your payment."

Seems reasonable. I looked at the pinouts for both the Typhoon and D400, and there is a difference in one pin in the CAN-USB connector. I don't know if Norton got the Typhoon or the later D400. Next step is to contact SC Delta. Have to see how that goes.

Ken

Proves nothing worth while is ever easy.

Some more updates. It's a good thing they didn't sell me the dongle. It looks like it was the wrong one. It was for a DB9 serial port connector, which the ECU doesn't have! Other than the main multi-pin connector, there aren't any other connectors on it. SC-Delta sells a CAN-USB lead that plugs into the OBD port, which the bike does have, so that's probably the one I need.

Maybe someone like Richard, who has experience with updating maps can chime in here. Does the cable Norton supplies to its dealers for changing maps on the SC ECU connect to the OBD connector? I don't see where else it could, unless it goes to the main connector, which would mean unplugging the ECU from the bike to make any changes.

At least I'm learning more about ECUs and maps and such from all this exercise.

Ken

lcrken said:

Some more updates. It's a good thing they didn't sell me the dongle. It looks like it was the wrong one. It was for a DB9 serial port connector, which the ECU doesn't have! Other than the main multi-pin connector, there aren't any other connectors on it. SC-Delta sells a CAN-USB lead that plugs into the OBD port, which the bike does have, so that's probably the one I need.

Maybe someone like Richard, who has experience with updating maps can chime in here. Does the cable Norton supplies to its dealers for changing maps on the SC ECU connect to the OBD connector? I don't see where else it could, unless it goes to the main connector, which would mean unplugging the ECU from the bike to make any changes.

At least I'm learning more about ECUs and maps and such from all this exercise.

Ken

Click to expand...

Yes. The cable has a dongle in line. And connects to ODB. and the delaer software SXCAR DOES NOT allow for mods. Only load existing programs. But you can run the bike and see diagnostics. Its a great way to tune the idle screw perfectly. The way in my book gets you really really close. The software shows you %’s so you can nail it. Basically thats the only adjustment you can make. But you can monitor all your sensors and see how fast they read and when you replace with Bosch you will see a lot. I was told you can hack the software if you have the cable with dongle but I’m not tech savvy enough to figure that out. Someone I know did it but they live in a different country and I couldn’t figure it out even with his help.

I’m happy with 077. I’m constantly having to stop myself from doing 100mph because the bike does it way too easily. I have the shorty motads.

BritTwit said:

Curtis,

My Dyno guy said he has worked on the 961 before and said the wild idle is an issue he has seen on other bikes as well.
It has to do with the IAC programmed in the ECU.
Separate from the main fuel map.
It controls air to the engine at idle.
The IAC takes sensor data from the the airbox temp, cylinder head temp, and O2 sensors and uses the data to send signals to the throttle valve servo.
How it is using the data is the issue, and this effects cold idling and hot wild idling.
To access the IAC and make modifications requires the dongle, software, and interface cable for that ECU (SC or OMEX).

Right now, only Norton can access the IAC and make changes.
If the interface cable and software were available we could create custom maps and make any adjustments for any exhaust, or engine tune.

Click to expand...

That may be, but I went two seasons where the bike ran perfectly and idled at 1250 and didn't waiver once. 4400 miles of pure perfection. The onlyh time it ran high was when Gold Coast...TWICE....remapped me with 77. Once I didn't even make it home. I made a U turn and the installed 90 while I waited. Rest of the season, perfect. I suspect while they had the bike post accident, the did it to me a third time. Winter got in the way. I'll go back as soon as I can. This thread really went off topic. Curious as to why the signals don't blink on the bike for sale.

richard-7 said:

Yes. The cable has a dongle in line. And connects to ODB. and the delaer software SXCAR DOES NOT allow for mods. Only load existing programs. But you can run the bike and see diagnostics. Its a great way to tune the idle screw perfectly. The way in my book gets you really really close. The software shows you %’s so you can nail it. Basically thats the only adjustment you can make. But you can monitor all your sensors and see how fast they read and when you replace with Bosch you will see a lot. I was told you can hack the software if you have the cable with dongle but I’m not tech savvy enough to figure that out. Someone I know did it but they live in a different country and I couldn’t figure it out even with his help.

I’m happy with 077. I’m constantly having to stop myself from doing 100mph because the bike does it way too easily. I have the shorty motads.

Click to expand...

Thanks, Richard. I think the hack, once you have the right cable/dongle/CAN-USB leads, is to just use the SXTune software package that is a free download from SC. I've downloaded it and looked through it, and it looks like a full featured tuner suite, with full access to all the functions and mapping for any of the current SC ECUs. I'm hoping that also includes the older ones, like the Storm and Typhoon models, which I think Norton used. There's always the possibility that Norton had SC make some sort of internal mods so the software won't work with their proprietary unit, but I don't think that's likely. Hoping to get some more definite answers from SC.

Ken

heres another one for sale
Broken link removed

jimbo said:

heres another one for sale

Broken link Removed

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Forum member. Nice bike. Fairly priced in my opinion. Some cool custom touches.

The last time I looked at this bike a week or so ago , 13k was the starting bid. Maybe you can buy it now for 12K. ? This was the Dhartwig bike.