The last Norton ever made comes up for auction at the Stafford classic bike show on 24th April. Its a Mk111 Interstate in silver, and has never been started or ridden. Sounds ideal for a collector, but likely to be pretty expensive as its 100% genuine, and is in effect one of the very last machines produced by the Brit motorcycle industry. More details on this Norton in this months Classic Bike magazine.
Last Norton made
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grandpaul
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Ummmmmmm.....
Triumphs were made at the Meriden factory in 1983.
They continued to be made by Les Harris till nearly 1990. In fact, it is argued that Triumphs have been in constant production for well over 100 years, about a yerar longer than HDs.
Also, doesn't Norvil still build new-to-75-spec Commandos?
Triumphs were made at the Meriden factory in 1983.
They continued to be made by Les Harris till nearly 1990. In fact, it is argued that Triumphs have been in constant production for well over 100 years, about a yerar longer than HDs.
Also, doesn't Norvil still build new-to-75-spec Commandos?
Not completely sure that Commandos built in very small numbers out of spare parts, are quite the same thing as the very last production machines built by Andover Norton back in 1978?
Firstly, I think I can verify which is the last Mk3 made because I have the original MK3 despatch book. I have several original despatch ledgers, late 750/850 era. These are NOT on the microfilms existing elsewhere. As far as I know- but I will verify with Nick Hopkins- the story about Andover Norton actually building bikes in 1978 is one of many myths. They did have a cache of Mk3s off the liquidator in Wolverhampton, that they sold off one by one at slowly increasing prices for several years. I guess people who saw the new machines at Andover Norton THOUGHT they were being assembles there, not realizing they were just mothballed bikes from production days.
"New Nortons" are being built using part new, part used components, so "new" is relative. The last 100% new Commandos were, if my information is correct, the last bikes built in Wolverhampton in1977.
Joe
"New Nortons" are being built using part new, part used components, so "new" is relative. The last 100% new Commandos were, if my information is correct, the last bikes built in Wolverhampton in1977.
Joe
Confirming the above, Nick Hopkins writes:
"No bikes were assembled at Andover after the factories there and at Wolverhampton closed in 1975. Under the auspices of the Official Receiver production of new Mk3 Commandos restarted at Wolverhampton in 1976 and these bikes were marketed by the newly-formed NVT Motorcycles Ltd. at Shenstone. Later, following the formation of Andover Norton Ltd., the last 30 machines to be built at Wolverhampton (all Mk3 Interstates in silver) were sent to Andover for retail sale. These bikes arrived from Wolverhampton fully-assembled and some were doubtless still in the Andover showroom in 1978 but all were built in 1977 and none were built or even part-finished at Andover."
According to my Commando Despatch record, 336537 was the last 850Mk3 number, tested and accepted 18th October, 1977. Several earlier numbers were tested and accepted on the 19th and 20th, and all of them went to NVT Shenstone and eventually to Andover Norton.
Joe Seifert
"No bikes were assembled at Andover after the factories there and at Wolverhampton closed in 1975. Under the auspices of the Official Receiver production of new Mk3 Commandos restarted at Wolverhampton in 1976 and these bikes were marketed by the newly-formed NVT Motorcycles Ltd. at Shenstone. Later, following the formation of Andover Norton Ltd., the last 30 machines to be built at Wolverhampton (all Mk3 Interstates in silver) were sent to Andover for retail sale. These bikes arrived from Wolverhampton fully-assembled and some were doubtless still in the Andover showroom in 1978 but all were built in 1977 and none were built or even part-finished at Andover."
According to my Commando Despatch record, 336537 was the last 850Mk3 number, tested and accepted 18th October, 1977. Several earlier numbers were tested and accepted on the 19th and 20th, and all of them went to NVT Shenstone and eventually to Andover Norton.
Joe Seifert
It can be argued too that the last Norton was made in 1962. That is the year the original Norton factory was shut down by the conglomerate AMC. Most everyone at Norton was shit-canned or quit and moved on. The original Norton factory was about the only profitable thing that AMC had, and they screwed it up.
Commandos were designed by a bunch of Matchless engineers. Were they any more a Norton than a G15 scrambler was a Matchless?
Big corporations and millionaires buy Trademarks and rights to manufacture all the time, but what they produce does not necessarily have the heart and soul of the original.
Charitably, the original Norton models that AMC kept in production after 1962, the featherbed Dominators can still be called Nortons, all the other "ideas" that the Norton name was slapped on since the closing of Bracebridge Street don't really count.
When millionair's buy up trademarks like Indian, Norton , Triumph etc.. it is so they can USE the cred left in the image or name, it absolutely does not mean that the consumer-grade shit they pump out has anything to do with the original. There is a sucker born every minute is right, slapping down cash and believing they have got something for it.
Electric start Commandos were slabs of shit, choked by emissions and noise laws, sloppily switched right for left foot controls and a laughable electric "starter". I would not want one any more than I would want to push a tack into my forehead.
AMC brilliant logic, throw away what works, the chassis that everyone else in the world is copying and starting to use, and design and inferior one to bring the bike down to the level of the shitty engine. That is what a Commando is.....
Commandos were designed by a bunch of Matchless engineers. Were they any more a Norton than a G15 scrambler was a Matchless?
Big corporations and millionaires buy Trademarks and rights to manufacture all the time, but what they produce does not necessarily have the heart and soul of the original.
Charitably, the original Norton models that AMC kept in production after 1962, the featherbed Dominators can still be called Nortons, all the other "ideas" that the Norton name was slapped on since the closing of Bracebridge Street don't really count.
When millionair's buy up trademarks like Indian, Norton , Triumph etc.. it is so they can USE the cred left in the image or name, it absolutely does not mean that the consumer-grade shit they pump out has anything to do with the original. There is a sucker born every minute is right, slapping down cash and believing they have got something for it.
Electric start Commandos were slabs of shit, choked by emissions and noise laws, sloppily switched right for left foot controls and a laughable electric "starter". I would not want one any more than I would want to push a tack into my forehead.
AMC brilliant logic, throw away what works, the chassis that everyone else in the world is copying and starting to use, and design and inferior one to bring the bike down to the level of the shitty engine. That is what a Commando is.....
ZFD said:
That's something of a revelation!
Is the NOC aware of their existence? Or could the information they contain be made accessible so they can be viewed or copied-either by the NOC or perhaps by certain individuals?
ZFD said:
According to the NOC website, the "last" was 336538?
Also, the letters section of the August 1997 issue of Classic Bike magazine contains a reply from Carl Rosner who at the time claimed to own the last Commando: 336539.
beng said:
Does it matter?
beng said:
Well... if you do happen find any worthless MkIIIs abandoned anywhere-then could you please let me or the other forum members know so we can dispose of them properly? :wink:
Im with you on that L.A.B.
Phil
Phil
LAB,
Can only tell you what is in the book. Carl was indeed one of the few last dealers who got 850Mk3s from the last but one batch. The last complete batch went to NVT in Shenstone. I should be surprised if the book wasn't complete; it looks like it was well-kept till the very end. An indication is that the last batch did indeed go to NVT in Shenstone and as late as October 1977. Why there should be two more numbers that aren't in the book is beyond me and, frankly, I doubt it.
Don't forget Andover Norton IS the factory these days whilst the NOC is but a club. Andover Norton have the microfilms and some years ago in an auction some of the original books came up. We contacted the seller and bought all he had back. So I have the records of some 750s that supposedly never were, plus a lot of the 850s. The missing numbers now are mainly the 850Mk2s, so, unfortunately, I can not verify a single JPN.
Joe
Can only tell you what is in the book. Carl was indeed one of the few last dealers who got 850Mk3s from the last but one batch. The last complete batch went to NVT in Shenstone. I should be surprised if the book wasn't complete; it looks like it was well-kept till the very end. An indication is that the last batch did indeed go to NVT in Shenstone and as late as October 1977. Why there should be two more numbers that aren't in the book is beyond me and, frankly, I doubt it.
Don't forget Andover Norton IS the factory these days whilst the NOC is but a club. Andover Norton have the microfilms and some years ago in an auction some of the original books came up. We contacted the seller and bought all he had back. So I have the records of some 750s that supposedly never were, plus a lot of the 850s. The missing numbers now are mainly the 850Mk2s, so, unfortunately, I can not verify a single JPN.
Joe
As a numbers nut, I'm fascinated to hear that there may be some late factory records still in existence. The majority of old factory ledgers going back to the 1920s or so are in the hands of the Vintage Motor Cycle Club. (The NOC have microfilm copies). They came there via the Science Museum from the Metropolitan Police Stolen Vehicle squad along with those relating to a number of other factories but it now appears as if the most recent books were not part of that consignment.
Having been with the Police for some time, the late records have been padded out with (real) carbon copies of the UK vehicle licencing application forms to further assist with the identification of stolen machines. . These were 'factory' documents in that the machine details were typed on by NVT when the machines were despatched. There are no real 'ledgers' for the late machines in this collection.
I have heard that the earlier ledgers were rescued from a skip at Andover by John Hudson and were kept by him for a time until he could persuade NVT that they were worth retaining and were given back. It was generally thought that perhaps any missing volumes were lost when they were skipped.
Joe, are there any pre-Commando ledgers with Andover ? The years 1940 - 45 are still missing !
I'm a bit disappointed to see that Mr. Gradler has brought his own special blend of vitriol over to the Commando forum. I've enjoyed many years of ownership of a MkIII and am well aware of its issues without his helpful advice. My other Norton is a sidevalve with a frame that's open at the bottom. At least it's a proper Norton though, with an engine type designed when Pa was still active, not like these johnny-come-lately twin cylinder things.
Having been with the Police for some time, the late records have been padded out with (real) carbon copies of the UK vehicle licencing application forms to further assist with the identification of stolen machines. . These were 'factory' documents in that the machine details were typed on by NVT when the machines were despatched. There are no real 'ledgers' for the late machines in this collection.
I have heard that the earlier ledgers were rescued from a skip at Andover by John Hudson and were kept by him for a time until he could persuade NVT that they were worth retaining and were given back. It was generally thought that perhaps any missing volumes were lost when they were skipped.
Joe, are there any pre-Commando ledgers with Andover ? The years 1940 - 45 are still missing !
I'm a bit disappointed to see that Mr. Gradler has brought his own special blend of vitriol over to the Commando forum. I've enjoyed many years of ownership of a MkIII and am well aware of its issues without his helpful advice. My other Norton is a sidevalve with a frame that's open at the bottom. At least it's a proper Norton though, with an engine type designed when Pa was still active, not like these johnny-come-lately twin cylinder things.
ZFD said:
John Pedley who in 1978 was Andover Norton general manager, must have been mistaken when he stated that after the last batch of 25 bikes was sold in that year, he arranged for one last machine to be assembled, which he kept himself?
ML said:
I have spent years riding both a 73' 850 Commando and a 650cc Norton dominator very hard. Harder than any of the yuppie collectors who have them now ever will for sure. I never wanted an Atlas "paint shaker" which was a design compromise for the sake of marketing.
My Commando was speed shifted, wheelied, drag-raced, burned rear tires down to the cords in one summer, and ridden at 90- 100mph for hours. Same for the 650, except it was a lot easier on rear tires.
People who come into a PUBLIC forum and cry when anyone has an opinion or point of view different than theirs are amusing. What sort of country in the world ridicules and persecutes those with different opinions and philosophies than the establishment? Hitler's country? Sorry the world population was not cloned from a scrap of your hair.......
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