Kickstart not returning

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edward

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I recently renewed the relevant bushes in my gearbox as the kickstarter appeared to be catching and locking up sometimes. Although this problem is now resolved I now find that the kickstarter does not return when I kick it. I dissassembled to check for tightness in the bushes and/or anything else obviously wrong. found nothing, put it back and it seemed OK, now 2 days later same problem, the kickstart has to be moved back manually and feels a little tight. Any ideas? I have the Mick Hemmings ball race on the other end of the layshaft and one shim behind the inner cover and there is a lot of endfloat.
 
edward said:
I recently renewed the relevant bushes in my gearbox as the kickstarter appeared to be catching and locking up sometimes. Although this problem is now resolved I now find that the kickstarter does not return when I kick it. I dissassembled to check for tightness in the bushes and/or anything else obviously wrong. found nothing, put it back and it seemed OK, now 2 days later same problem, the kickstart has to be moved back manually and feels a little tight. Any ideas? I have the Mick Hemmings ball race on the other end of the layshaft and one shim behind the inner cover and there is a lot of endfloat.
Click to expand...
Did you enlarge the I.D. Of the shim?
 
Hi Edward,

I'm facing exactly the same problem as yours.

What I noticed is that when the clutch is disengaged, the kickshaft moves freely and returns easily to its UP position. So to me, the kickshaft spring is not involved in the problem.

When kicking to start the engine (clutch engaged of course), it does not return fully to its UP position.

As in your situation, there is enough kickshaft endplay. It looks like turning the crankshaft (via a belt drive on my bike) moves the layshaft and kickshaft a bit on the right, creating a friction preventing the kick to return to its UP position.

No other idea to investigate at the time being.

Laurent
 
An update on this;
1)there is a lot of endfloat when measured with the inner cover tightened (as in the Old Britts guide)but when everything is assembled there is no measurable endfloat when pulling in and out on the kickstart.
2)I found that when I slightly loosened the outer cover the kickstarter returned normally
3)BUT I also found that with the bike in neutral and the clutch lever pulled in, the kickstarter was free until depressed to about the 8' o ' clock position past this it caused the back wheel to turn around forward as it went down and backwards as it came up and releasing at the 8'o' clock position. What is causing the back wheel to turn since not only is it in neutral but the clutch is pulled in?
4)As stated I have the Mick Hemmings ball race on the layshaft but I think the layshaft is loose in the inner race could this be a cause of the problem and can the shaft be loctited in the inner race?
 
edward said:
An update on this;
1)there is a lot of endfloat when measured with the inner cover tightened (as in the Old Britts guide)but when everything is assembled there is no measurable endfloat when pulling in and out on the kickstart.
2)I found that when I slightly loosened the outer cover the kickstarter returned normally
Click to expand...

As tightening the outer cover appears to remove all the end float then it's something that needs to be investigated (outer cover fouling the kickstart spring perhaps?).



edward said:
4)As stated I have the Mick Hemmings ball race on the layshaft but I think the layshaft is loose in the inner race could this be a cause of the problem and can the shaft be loctited in the inner race?
Click to expand...

Doubtful, I would think, but it's something you could try.
 
L.A.B. said:
edward said:
An update on this;
1)there is a lot of endfloat when measured with the inner cover tightened (as in the Old Britts guide)but when everything is assembled there is no measurable endfloat when pulling in and out on the kickstart.
2)I found that when I slightly loosened the outer cover the kickstarter returned normally
Click to expand...

As tightening the outer cover appears to remove all the end float then it's something that needs to be investigated (outer cover fouling the kickstart spring perhaps?).



edward said:
4)As stated I have the Mick Hemmings ball race on the layshaft but I think the layshaft is loose in the inner race could this be a cause of the problem and can the shaft be loctited in the inner race?
Click to expand...

Doubtful, I would think, but it's something you could try.
Click to expand...

Sometimes the thing you dismiss as no way that could affect my problem are the things that affect it. Look at everything and discount nothing until you can positively eliminate it as a source of your problem.
John in Texas
 
I have just rebuilt my gearbox this afternoon and exactly as Edward says the same problem occurs to me. The primary is not on the bike. All bearings are new and 1st and 2cd gears, the kickershaft as for spring. I am worried that either the main or layshaft are bent. Before the rebuild sometimes the kickstart had to be returned by hand but that cured itself. Now I am up against the problem which doesn't look like it will cure itself.
Due to the primary not being on the bike I have not been able to tighten the mainshaft nut yet.
I would be glad of some tips as to what to do now other than tearing it all down again.
John
 
if you had no end float on the KS shaft after installing the inner cover, it suggest that your bearings were not bottomed out completely in the back end of the case. when you had it apart did you check for a bent shaft?.

you can tighten the mainshaft nut if you have the chain on and lock the rear wheel. but until you get this free floating and easy return on the KS, you may have to go back into it...

have you rebuilt them before?
 
I did have the required end float and I am sure the bearings had bottomed out. No I hadn't checked for bends as everything had seemed OK before the strip but there could always be a possibility, at the moment I'm hoping it's maybe the new kickstart shaft bush which could be to tight and need reaming.
This is a first time for me but I have done T140V's before.
 
Did you replace the inner bush on the kick-start shaft? I had problems on my rebuild as I could not get this bush to seat fully without using a press.
 
When I bought it from Andover Norton the bush was already in. I can measure the distance on my old one and see how it is, without doubt I will have to pull the middle cover again.
I am grateful for the help I am recieving.
 
The new kickstart shaft bush which could be to tight and need reaming

This is also my guess.When I reconditioned my gearbox, the kick starter moved backwards by acceleration. After a short time, it stopped with this without doing anything. Good luck.
 
As soon as I have time I will go back to it and let you know how things are.
Thanks a lot for the help.
 
if i understand you ; you are installing a new andover inner cover, then if this were mine , i would pull the inner cover and do a mock fit with the KS shaft,inner cover and outer cover (also do a fit with the old inner cover). you may have an alignment issue D/T the installed bushing. if verified then go back to andover first before any other action, as they need to know
 
the inner cover KS bushing seems to be a continuing problem, its seems to wallow out the inner cover and becomes loose.

im not sure if the fit of the bushing from factory is not tight enough, or service location may require a different choice of inner cover mat'l.
 
the KS shaft inner bush has a capped end on the inside. If you lube up the shaft to get it in easier, you can create hydraulic pressure in the cavity and it may not seat fully. Ask me how I figured that one out....

I would think if it is not seated fully, it could wallow out the cover if it is only slight - and not enough to bind on the cover as mine did.

I dont understand how the KS inner cover bush would wallow out the cover? That one required freezing with a heated cover to get it in.
 
edward said:
I recently renewed the relevant bushes in my gearbox as the kickstarter appeared to be catching and locking up sometimes. Although this problem is now resolved I now find that the kickstarter does not return when I kick it. I dissassembled to check for tightness in the bushes and/or anything else obviously wrong. found nothing, put it back and it seemed OK, now 2 days later same problem, the kickstart has to be moved back manually and feels a little tight. Any ideas? I have the Mick Hemmings ball race on the other end of the layshaft and one shim behind the inner cover and there is a lot of endfloat.
Click to expand...
gortnipper said:
the KS shaft inner bush has a capped end on the inside. If you lube up the shaft to get it in easier, you can create hydraulic pressure in the cavity and it may not seat fully. Ask me how I figured that one out....

I would think if it is not seated fully, it could wallow out the cover if it is only slight - and not enough to bind on the cover as mine did.

I dont understand how the KS inner cover bush would wallow out the cover? That one required freezing with a heated cover to get it in.
Click to expand...
 
Going back to my original post, I have deduced that in my case the reason was that the bearing had come loose in the box and allowing the shaft to move and put enough pressure on the kickstart so it wouldn't return.
 
Despite falling snow I could not resist to go into my garage and try again. As I thought my mistake had been that I had the 90 Degree kink on the kickstart spring in the hole at 12:00 o'clock instead of the hole at 06:00 o'clock. As soon as the spring was installed I had lots of tension, even more than when the old spring was in.
I sure am glad it was nothing serious.
John
 
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