Idle problem solved

TonyA said:
Steep descent oil reservoir , just an experiment based on a complaint from an AUS forum member. While going down a steep descent hear the lifters clatter because he was running out of oil. First it’s not big enough to fix his problem. Second , I don’t have a descent steep enough around here to fully test it !
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Thanks for clarifying Tony. That is worth noting, especially here where we do have a few steep descents :). I have actually been thinking of tidying up the oil supply line by lengthening it so it runs behind the frame rail, then over the top of the sprocket cover to the banjo fitting. I guess that would hold a few more cc’s of oil.
 
Tony,
couldn't an alternate oil feed fitting be installed in the forward part of the oil tank, behind the steering head?
Then "Y" the two feed lines together, and that line would run to the oil pump.
That way, no matter what the physical attitude of the bike, the pump would have an oil supply.
 
That may work , and should be tested . The problem is doing it is going to take a lot of work. When the airbox is removed , you could run a small oil tank (if that make sense). With my current primary and secondary air/oil separators , I can run up to the mid point 2.3 L (on the old stick marks ) and not a frigging drop of oil in the bottle. I get some water especially first ride of the year. I don't want to go off a tangent , guys running the stock air box don't have room for this crap. Iwilson shows the Domi has room for the secodary separator) But long story short , your 961 will find its level . The oil will discharge until you've hit the sweet spot level wise. The bike be must tested fully , this must include interstate 70-75 mph (prolonged) and high speed runs. Don't assume its 2.5L or 1.5 L , FIND OUT ! .
 
iwilson said:
Just a quick update on where I'm at with the idle. We left of with establishing the root cause of the engines inability to idle nicely being the charge robbing that occurs via the idle air pipe that joins both throttle bodies. Once this was plugged the air fuel ratio normalised between each cylinder and the engine just sounded a whole lot happier. No more fouled plugs and with the entire IAC system removed no odd idle behaviour hot or cold.

The only downside was in order to set the hot idle to around the factory specified 1250rpm the cold idle needed to be around 800rpm. However with the AFR now sorted the bike is perfectly happy to start and idle at this speed! No need to hang onto the throttle while the engine warms up. But I wanted to see if it was possible to solve the problem and have the ECU control the idle speed. So I got a local engineering shop to make this...

View attachment 72616

The idea was to block the tube and force the idle air to each cylinder to travel down individual tubes and reduce the possibility of charge stealing.


View attachment 72617

This is the plug that blocks the original IAC tube and feeds each throttle body with its own air supply.

Long story short it didn't work! The air lines are to restrictive to provide enough air to be able to alter the RPM by the required 300 or so needed to account for the engine going from cold to hot. Also it was proving difficult without sealant to block the balance tube so I was still seeing some charge robbing. So I had a couple of choices, spend more money on modifying the design to flow better and using a flexible sealant to glue the plug in. Or I could have machined new independent idle air lines into each throttle body and permanently sealed the old one. But as I only have one to experiment on, I decided not to!

The engine has never sounded better at idle so I'm going to leave it there as I've already spent more than I should! But if you want a fully reversible fix for the idle on your bike, then just get rid of the entire IAC system, block the tube and set the throttle position screw to achieve the desired idle speed. The result is quite spectacular, the engine is more than happy to idle at speeds it could only dream of before!



Rock solid start and idle from cold at 800RPM! Fully warm it sits at 1,200. I give it a couple of blips at the minute mark to see if it will recover back to idle without stalling (which it does).

So I'm going to leave it there, hoping that Norton/Jenvey will make a change to the design of the throttle body in the future (they are both aware of my findings).
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Hi, I thought this is a good idea, so I did the same but try to use tubes and a plugg that is not to restricted and I got it to work. The idle is much better and I also bougt from scs-delta the comunication cable so I am able to see that the o2 sensor is equel in readings. Some pictures from the installation and drawing of the plug, the most restriction is in the plug where the holes is 3,5 mm.
 
That looks great! Any photos of it before it was installed?
 
FrostNorton said:
Sorry no, but I plan to lift the tank during winter and check the installation so at that time I can tak some pictures of the installation.
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Hello , You have a very interesting design . I wonder if you coud explain if there are two separate hoses coming off the plug and how you have attached the IAC ?
 
TonyA said:
Hello , You have a very interesting design . I wonder if you coud explain if there are two separate hoses coming off the plug and how you have attached the IAC ?
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Yes, there is two separate hoses from the plug. I will try to explain from the plug to IAC, see also the picture of used components.
In the plug i use an adapter(8mm to AN4) on that one i use 30 degree hose connection, the hose is 6 mm rubber hose, then it is a 90 degree hose connection that is connected to an y connection, out from the y connection it is a straight AN 6 hose connection to a 10 mm rubber hose that are connected to IAC. But there could be the first connection a 45 degree instead and the second one to be a 120 degree connection to get these connection lined up better. And the hose and 90 degree connection is above the feul railings (where the injectors are connected in). I hope this make sense, and the pictures,
 
FrostNorton said:
Yes, there is two separate hoses from the plug. I will try to explain from the plug to IAC, see also the picture of used components.
In the plug i use an adapter(8mm to AN4) on that one i use 30 degree hose connection, the hose is 6 mm rubber hose, then it is a 90 degree hose connection that is connected to an y connection, out from the y connection it is a straight AN 6 hose connection to a 10 mm rubber hose that are connected to IAC. But there could be the first connection a 45 degree instead and the second one to be a 120 degree connection to get these connection lined up better. And the hose and 90 degree connection is above the feul railings (where the injectors are connected in). I hope this make sense, and the pictures,
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Thank you for the explanation .
 
FrostNorton said:
Yes, there is two separate hoses from the plug. I will try to explain from the plug to IAC, see also the picture of used components.
In the plug i use an adapter(8mm to AN4) on that one i use 30 degree hose connection, the hose is 6 mm rubber hose, then it is a 90 degree hose connection that is connected to an y connection, out from the y connection it is a straight AN 6 hose connection to a 10 mm rubber hose that are connected to IAC. But there could be the first connection a 45 degree instead and the second one to be a 120 degree connection to get these connection lined up better. And the hose and 90 degree connection is above the feul railings (where the injectors are connected in). I hope this make sense, and the pictures,
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Gojuu said:
@FrostNorton - the unit that you've installed to block the balance tube, is that a press fit?
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Hi, yes it is
 
That’s pretty much ( in fact almost exactly) what @iwilson did in post #22 of this thread, but he reported it was unsuccessful.

Idle problem solved

Could you reduce the hot idle down to around 1000rpm and install a simple throttle lock device for the cold idle. My bike doesn't take long for it to warm up from cold and settle to around 1200rpm, maybe 2 mins at most, which is about the time it takes to do up my chin strap and get my gloves...
www.accessnorton.com www.accessnorton.com
 
cliffa said:
That’s pretty much ( in fact almost exactly) what @iwilson did in post #22 of this thread, but he reported it was unsuccessful.

Idle problem solved

Could you reduce the hot idle down to around 1000rpm and install a simple throttle lock device for the cold idle. My bike doesn't take long for it to warm up from cold and settle to around 1200rpm, maybe 2 mins at most, which is about the time it takes to do up my chin strap and get my gloves...
www.accessnorton.com www.accessnorton.com
Click to expand...
Yes it is, and I thought the idea was good so I also tried it out but what I think with some bigger holes in the plug to not restrict the airflow. I have used 3,5 mm holes in the plug.
 
@FrostNorton amd is the pathway between the cylinders only open when the IAC is open? Or do the hoses join prior to the IAC?
 
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