Identification of 5sp gearbox in 1972 Dunstall and part search

Gorio

Gorio

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Hi. I am trying to find a replacement lay- shaft 2nd gear. It is in a 5sp box in a AMC case that came in a Dunstall 810 in 1972. The only markings on the gear are "H" and "19".
Wondering if you can help me out with any information as to who may have manufactured this box and if there maybe a source of spares?
I can send photos to anyone who would like to have a look.
Thanks
 
MichaelB said:
It's probably a Quaife set.
Don't think they make them anymore.

Quaife Motorcycle Gearkits - Norton, Triumph, Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha

Learn more about our range of precision engineered motorcycle gearkits. We've been designing and manufacturing motorcycle gearkits since the 1960's.
www.quaife.co.uk www.quaife.co.uk
Click to expand...
Thanks MichaelB
I have it on pretty good authority that it is not a Quaife gear set. It seems their's were all marked with part numbers such as A1H1.... but I don't know a lot about them so I will certainly consider any information given. It would seem that was the gear set commonly used by Dunstall so perhaps you are right.
I would love to find more drawings and photos of five speeds so I could confirm the maker.
Thanks for the input.
 
This thread may help

lcrken

Thread 'Gearsets For Commando/AMC Gearbox'

Posts on another thread prompted me to post this in a separate thread. It's a compilation of all the data I have on 4, 5, and 6 speed gearsets that can be used in the AMC gearbox. I think I posted this info several years back, but I've updated it lately, mostly to add the TTI info. I hope some of you find it of interest. If you find errors in it, or have additional info to add, please post it here. There are 4 pages, and I didn't think to put page numbers on them, but the order is pretty obvious.

Gearsets For Commando/AMC Gearbox


Gearsets For Commando/AMC Gearbox


Gearsets For Commando/AMC Gearbox


Gearsets For Commando/AMC Gearbox


Ken
  • Like

Some pics of your gearset would help too, I use postimages.org to post on this forum.
 
kommando said:
This thread may help

lcrken

Thread 'Gearsets For Commando/AMC Gearbox'

Posts on another thread prompted me to post this in a separate thread. It's a compilation of all the data I have on 4, 5, and 6 speed gearsets that can be used in the AMC gearbox. I think I posted this info several years back, but I've updated it lately, mostly to add the TTI info. I hope some of you find it of interest. If you find errors in it, or have additional info to add, please post it here. There are 4 pages, and I didn't think to put page numbers on them, but the order is pretty obvious.

Gearsets For Commando/AMC Gearbox


Gearsets For Commando/AMC Gearbox


Gearsets For Commando/AMC Gearbox


Gearsets For Commando/AMC Gearbox


Ken
  • Like

Some pics of your gearset would help too, I use postimages.org to post on this forum.
Click to expand...

Gorio said:
Hi. I am trying to find a replacement lay- shaft 2nd gear. It is in a 5sp box in a AMC case that came in a Dunstall 810 in 1972. The only markings on the gear are "H" and "19".
Wondering if you can help me out with any information as to who may have manufactured this box and if there maybe a source of spares?
I can send photos to anyone who would like to have a look.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Here is a couple of pics of the offending gear. I will get some of the whole gear set latter today.
postimg.cc

Album — Postimages

postimg.cc postimg.cc
 
If what the owner of this bike says is true then the 5sp box fitted to the 810 Dunstall Commando 71/72 is extremely rare.

www.southbayriders.com

1971 Dunstall Norton 810

Why I Have Not Been Riding. I was given the opportunity to ride this bike at the 2013 Quail ride..........only problem was that it did not run..........had not run in over 25 years. My project started back in December of 2012. Dunstall had to be ready by May 2nd, 4 months to get her up and...
www.southbayriders.com www.southbayriders.com

Everything on this Dunstall Norton 810 came direct from Paul Dunstall`s factory at the time of purchase, not added piece by piece from his performance catalog over time, everything on it is original, I saw the paperwork from the original owner, with all the options checked off in his order sheet, the 5 speed gear box is very rare.

Paul Dunstall would first modify an existing part before considering new tooling etc so maybe you can track down the original gear.
 
kommando said:
This thread may help

lcrken

Thread 'Gearsets For Commando/AMC Gearbox'

Posts on another thread prompted me to post this in a separate thread. It's a compilation of all the data I have on 4, 5, and 6 speed gearsets that can be used in the AMC gearbox. I think I posted this info several years back, but I've updated it lately, mostly to add the TTI info. I hope some of you find it of interest. If you find errors in it, or have additional info to add, please post it here. There are 4 pages, and I didn't think to put page numbers on them, but the order is pretty obvious.

Gearsets For Commando/AMC Gearbox


Gearsets For Commando/AMC Gearbox


Gearsets For Commando/AMC Gearbox


Gearsets For Commando/AMC Gearbox


Ken
  • Like

Some pics of your gearset would help too, I use postimages.org to post on this forum.
Click to expand...

kommando said:
If what the owner of this bike says is true then the 5sp box fitted to the 810 Dunstall Commando 71/72 is extremely rare.

www.southbayriders.com

1971 Dunstall Norton 810

Why I Have Not Been Riding. I was given the opportunity to ride this bike at the 2013 Quail ride..........only problem was that it did not run..........had not run in over 25 years. My project started back in December of 2012. Dunstall had to be ready by May 2nd, 4 months to get her up and...
www.southbayriders.com www.southbayriders.com

Everything on this Dunstall Norton 810 came direct from Paul Dunstall`s factory at the time of purchase, not added piece by piece from his performance catalog over time, everything on it is original, I saw the paperwork from the original owner, with all the options checked off in his order sheet, the 5 speed gear box is very rare.

Paul Dunstall would first modify an existing part before considering new tooling etc so maybe you can track down the original gear.
Click to expand...
Thanks Kommando. This too is an actual Dunstall Bike. I have the order info, import docs, the canceled check that went to England and back. Even a photo of the un-createing. There is also some correspondence with Dunstall regarding the transmission issue which I should dig out and read again for clues.
I should have gone back through the correspondence sooner! There is mention of it being Quaife parts. I am not sure that is a big help as they are no longer available.
MichaelB said:
It's probably a Quaife set.
Don't think they make them anymore.

Quaife Motorcycle Gearkits - Norton, Triumph, Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha

Learn more about our range of precision engineered motorcycle gearkits. We've been designing and manufacturing motorcycle gearkits since the 1960's.
www.quaife.co.uk www.quaife.co.uk
Click to expand...
As it turns out it you are correct it is a Quaife box as I found mention of them in some old correspondence. It would seem parts were not available in 1974 so going to be a tough one.
 
kommando said:
This thread may help

lcrken

Thread 'Gearsets For Commando/AMC Gearbox'

Posts on another thread prompted me to post this in a separate thread. It's a compilation of all the data I have on 4, 5, and 6 speed gearsets that can be used in the AMC gearbox. I think I posted this info several years back, but I've updated it lately, mostly to add the TTI info. I hope some of you find it of interest. If you find errors in it, or have additional info to add, please post it here. There are 4 pages, and I didn't think to put page numbers on them, but the order is pretty obvious.

Gearsets For Commando/AMC Gearbox


Gearsets For Commando/AMC Gearbox


Gearsets For Commando/AMC Gearbox


Gearsets For Commando/AMC Gearbox


Ken
  • Like

Some pics of your gearset would help too, I use postimages.org to post on this forum.
Click to expand...

kommando said:
If what the owner of this bike says is true then the 5sp box fitted to the 810 Dunstall Commando 71/72 is extremely rare.

www.southbayriders.com

1971 Dunstall Norton 810

Why I Have Not Been Riding. I was given the opportunity to ride this bike at the 2013 Quail ride..........only problem was that it did not run..........had not run in over 25 years. My project started back in December of 2012. Dunstall had to be ready by May 2nd, 4 months to get her up and...
www.southbayriders.com www.southbayriders.com

Everything on this Dunstall Norton 810 came direct from Paul Dunstall`s factory at the time of purchase, not added piece by piece from his performance catalog over time, everything on it is original, I saw the paperwork from the original owner, with all the options checked off in his order sheet, the 5 speed gear box is very rare.

Paul Dunstall would first modify an existing part before considering new tooling etc so maybe you can track down the original gear.
Click to expand...
Thanks Kommando. This too is an actual Dunstall Bike. I have the order info, import docs, the canceled check that went to England and back. Even a photo of the un-createing. There is also some correspondence with Dunstall regarding the transmission issue which I should dig out and read again for clues.
I should have gone back through the correspondence sooner! There is mention of it being Quaife parts. I am not sure that is a big help as they are no longer available. If anyone sees a gear around marked with H and 19 drop me a line.

postimg.cc

Album — Postimages

postimg.cc postimg.cc
 
I believe you are in for a lot pain ahead.
My understanding is Mick Hemmings was the sole distributer for the Quaife 'Norton' pieces.
He has left us. There's probably more to the story, But Mick was the source.

I was going to recommend to replace the whole lot with the RGM close ratio set with Kicker.
It's a sweet set on a highly tuned bike, Just a big jump from 1st to 2nd.
But alas, it's out of stock...
www.rgmnorton.co.uk

CLOSE RATIO GEAR KIT, WITH DAYTONA 1ST GEARS FOR AMC GEARBOX

CLOSE RATIO GEAR RATIOS ARE AS FOLLOWS1-11.15-11.4-1 2.05-1THE LAYSHAFT AND MAINSHAFT 1ST GEARS ARE DAYTONA GEARS WHICH CAN TAKE A KICKSTART.CONTENTS OF
www.rgmnorton.co.uk

I wish you luck in your journey...
 
Try this, the Quaife box was used by Triumph as the basis for their 5 speed box.

The Triumph 3rd Layshaft gear looks like yours but with 18 not 19 teeth, so use that and change your 2nd gear mainshaft for the Triumph 3rd gear mainshaft so the gears mesh.

Triumph 3rd gear Layshaft is 57-4647


Identification of 5sp gearbox in 1972 Dunstall and part search


Triumph 3rd gear mainshaft is 57-4377


Identification of 5sp gearbox in 1972 Dunstall and part search
 
kommando said:
Try this, the Quaife box was used by Triumph as the basis for their 5 speed box.

The Triumph 3rd Layshaft gear looks like yours but with 18 not 19 teeth, so use that and change your 2nd gear mainshaft for the Triumph 3rd gear mainshaft so the gears mesh.

Triumph 3rd gear Layshaft is 57-4647


Identification of 5sp gearbox in 1972 Dunstall and part search


Triumph 3rd gear mainshaft is 57-4377


Identification of 5sp gearbox in 1972 Dunstall and part search
Click to expand...
Thanks Kommando. You are right that 3rd layshaft looks the same. but to opposing one is different in several ways. Heck of an idea though. I guess I need a shop with a bin full of 70's British bike gears to dig through. Have to look and see if there was other ratios used in Triumph 5sp boxes I might get luck yet.
Here is the 2nd gear main from that box. https://postimg.cc/gallery/yRGRSq7
 
You need to find a decent machine shop. If you have an original they can usually blow it up on a screen to find out what the profile is. Just get them to provide some decent steel and make a nice shiny new one. They might even heat treat if for you. None of this stuff is rocket science. In the next town to the one in which I live, there is a machine shop which had quality certifications during WW2. They can do gear hobbing. A Quaife gearbox is 1960s stuff - who would have parts for that ? - I would not even bother looking. If you live in the UK - there are probably still machine shops hidden away somewhere.
 
Since your gearset is 1972 vintage, it may be difficult to find replacement parts. Mick said there were differences with 5 speed gearsets over the years.
Someone in the US that might have some pieces is Ron Fratturelli, seller johnnajo on ebay. Worth asking him.
 
acotrel said:
You need to find a decent machine shop. If you have an original they can usually blow it up on a screen to find out what the profile is. Just get them to provide some decent steel and make a nice shiny new one. They might even heat treat if for you. None of this stuff is rocket science. In the next town to the one in which I live, there is a machine shop which had quality certifications during WW2. They can do gear hobbing. A Quaife gearbox is 1960s stuff - who would have parts for that ? - I would not even bother looking. If you live in the UK - there are probably still machine shops hidden away somewhere.
Click to expand...
Thanks acotrel. I am following up that option as well. in this case I am at a bit of a disadvantage location wise living rural on Vancouver island. I have started talking to a shop on the main land about having one or ten made up. They have heat treating capabilities which would be nice. I will see how it works out
 
Deckard said:
Since your gearset is 1972 vintage, it may be difficult to find replacement parts. Mick said there were differences with 5 speed gearsets over the years.
Someone in the US that might have some pieces is Ron Fratturelli, seller johnnajo on ebay. Worth asking him.
Click to expand...
I am sorry to say I think something has happened with Ron Fratturelli. Retirement at least and I don't want to think of other options. I will look up johnnajo. Thanks for the leads.
 
Hi Gorio
I will have a look for you. Not sure if I swapped them with Mean Gene for one of his projects.
 
A failure of one gear in a gearbox can destroy the lot. A locked gearbox usually crashes the bike. I would not fool around trying gears from other gear boxes. It is important to get it right. I was using a Manx cluster. It is possible to use different first gears - but they should only be changed in pairs of gears. Modern road races are usually clutch starts, a Manx was designed for push-start races. My friend has 3 first gears for his Manx - all in pairs.
 
Last edited:
Chris said:
Hi Gorio
I will have a look for you. Not sure if I swapped them with Mean Gene for one of his projects.
Click to expand...
Thanks Chris. Pretty sure there is one sitting somewhere but the big thing would be if the owner know what it is from. Would certainly make my life easier if one is found.
 
acotrel said:
A failure of one gear in a gearbox can destroy the lot. A locked gearbox usually crashes the bike. I would not fool around trying gears from other gear boxes. It is important to get it right. I was using a Manx cluster. It is possible to use different first gears - but they should only be changed in pairs of gears. Modern road races are usually clutch starts, a Manx was designed for push-start races. My friend has 3 first gears for his Manx - all in pairs.
Click to expand...
Acotrel. I agree safety first especially at this point in life. I was luck that when the dogs were peeled off that gear the PO shut it off and pull the clutch. He did then remove the pieces which I have. The box seemed to escape any further damage. I am not sure how.
If Quaife did use the same gear in different sets it could work but it doesn't look like I am that lucky.
 


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