How the West Won.Eventually. & then shut shop .

If this isnt a J.P.S. Norton , im a dutchman .



There I was , 600 on the clock , and . . . :shock:

A chap can appreciate this isnt youre average ' billiard table ' Race Track . and as such , a degree of controllablity may be desireable, along with a few other atributes , some of us atributed to the old crocks , not without good reason .
Entwined in the following is the trials and tribulations of the Norton ' Commando ' Racers , & " F-750 " production based
international raceing class after the F.I.M. became involved .Note the dispargeing terms relateing to Antiquity ,
despite its successes agianst " RACE " production bikes , as opposed to the Originally Intended " Production " race bikes .









The essence of this being , in there , is the story of ' Hows my GEARBOX ' and how to get it better than a Suzuki's . :lol:

Matt Spencer said:

If this isnt a J.P.S. Norton , im a dutchman.

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It looks like a Norton to me too but is it Jack Findlay like the caption indicates?

Even if you are not Dutch they will still let you buy the chocolate.

The last works ' Commando F-750 frame , and developmet thereto . Useing the ' Commando 750 ' powerplant / Transmission

He looks a bit like Croxford?

State of the art motorcycle 'cept for the poor old motor. For me that was the best time ever for UK motorcycle racing.
My new wife and I were on our honeymoon and were 100 yards away from PW when he crashed, a sad sad day :cry: . It was nigh on 40 years before we went to see live racing again, Assen WSB on the Commando .

Cash

probly getting a bit intense at that sage , which doesnt help . Clear Head raceings almost mandatory .
Mustve been unpleasant to witness . You wonder if he let it go he mayve been ok . Kicking back clears
std practise to avoid it useing you as a tent peg , with it the hammer . Protecting the investment tho
is the natural inclination , often stopping you seeing wats ahead with the wrestling .

I think knowing how to step clear of a machine , and how to ' lay it down ' are as important as any other rideing skills .
and like other things , hope you wont come to need to . But stuffing it into a car with your legs as a cusion , if no other choice beats being mangled . Much like the Rodeo and the Bulls , if its got that far in and close . stepping off ( the peg
to one side ) if you hit a banana skin whilst dwadling can save a slide too . Appaled here ( Aus ) to see people snarling
around in thongs , singlet and shorts .boots , gloves & helmet min . And these blokes with adequate funds want to look
some of the better skid lids too . I recon most accidents are fatigue & mind elsewhere / not on the job situations .

enough of that , Purloined the 1972 Spec picture , as this is a cut & shut Job on the road bike chassis .



Seventy three .

editagin

Thanks for posting the articles, Matt. Lots of good info there. I love this stuff.

Ken

Matt I 2nd the thanx for the in depth articles with some data I can use thank you.
Effects of too much front bias, exhaust alignment and air cooling heating flows.
Tire/rim width makes me wonder a bit about what to do in Peels future plans.

Its almost taboo and certainly against a racers instinct to abandon a cycle rather than try to fight a recovery so practice or skill on bailing off is a oxy-moron and essentially not a choice at all. Off bike practice/skill to crash happens w/o any planning or intention and in at least a few of my own, it happens so fast you don't even know you're down till a bit later so no chance to prepare.

The neat advantage I can do on tri-linked clunker framed Ms Peel is use engine power to snatch her down then i've the choise to let it high side up to save or stay down and low side with or w/o me on it. Believe me or not that's what it takes to exceed the limited two tire counter steering doodrums.

The point being , like horses , theres correct , and less adviseable ways to part company with the machine .

Practiseing movements and visualiesing differant proceedures may help them to occur autimatically in a emergancy.
For stroppy young speed racers .
The old foot on the seat & up as it hits trick .Not recomended with busses and semis . :shock:
Busses are best avoided , Not recomended but through under a semi might beat into it .
A bit russian Rouletteish , like the p.o.w.s rolling over the track timed to avoid the train wheels
after cutting a hole in the floor .So as to avoid the rear guards obsevation .

The pulling the leg as it goes down trick , and rolling back clear with a foot to the steering head .

essentially , if a sudden obstruction occurs , The Brakes , Evaluate , shoot the gap if availiable .
If unavailable go in last, not first. Preferably not under . Dont trap a leg . dont get draped over the bars .

The more athletic reconed to project upward , timed bar release , to half sumersault and project over to land on the feet running
Leather Soles are excellent here .

Robert Holden dropped it on the ripple at the top of the straight in the wet at a ton once , Waltzed foot to foot
down across the straight , over the grass , and absorbed impact on Large Tin Sign with his name " HOLDEN " on it .
Holden being G.M. Australia .
Point being , you dont ' Just fall Off ' a horse , theres ways to go about it . :lol: A bit of pracrtise on proceedures
should make the reactions automatic .
Like Jumping out of an Aeroplane, & Landing .KEEP the kness slightly bent , foot first on youre nether regions.
Then the legs act as a shock absorber.rather than snap .Also rolling left or right will alter vector .
Eyes Wide and forward will allow evaluation of options .

But , as said . FIRST step is Fr Brake .HARD. Apparently the decelerations better than the seat of the pants .
LAST options abandon ship , But Kicking Clear for the gap / hole in the sky beats testing the Max. G deceleration
of the anbatomy. over 20 G's things tend to let go .

Its amazeing what the sense of self preservation will achieve if given a bit of assistance .

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to the bikes, remember these guys are at the crossover period to professional w,f,o lunatics now prevalent .
and the science of applying horsepower was ( and is ) still being developed . Given conditions to there advantage ,
they were still capeable of beating ' the best of the best '. Again which won when ' conditions were to THEIR advantage .

Track / weather etc . Obviously on the film where Lawill loses the champs , FATIGUE is his major enemy . To clear thinking and optimum performace . Balls ups gallore through not scheduleing efforts / requirements .

Thus , I think , the olde girl still had life left in it .If the Cosworth had ' Bolted straight in , or theyed thrown a 3 bearing bottom end under it particularlly. Appears to many chiefs , jealousies , amatureism , entusiasm and missdirected efforts through ' seniority snobbery '. and the secretary mayve been off . Ever seen an outfit where the office Girl didnt keep the ship afloat .?
Throwing the rotissary in one wouldve pulled its finger out too .Come hell or high water .
thats werte ' manadgement knows best ' sujugates the workers and if snots sabotages
development and progress by leaps and bounds .
Giveing the young whipperschnappers free reign and guidance .
BUT the whole ' financially dictated proceedures ' cut the throat .

350 twin cams axed after full development to production readyness ( NVT ) a massive loss .( and gift to the opposition )
rebellious workers , incompatant in parts middle manadgement ( due largely to the pommy social hierachy . Ever had to deal with them .Suicide would be a good deal more rational than the inanity of decision makeing logic and execution . nd less painfull / quicker .
The general demenour is creating delusional problems to prevaricate over so as to create the illusion of power and superiority and accomplishment .Where theyve never created a thing in their lives .other than bewilderment & dissbelief.

Only in the Big city . . .

Go for it with your belief in the compatancey in youre set up , Steve . Theres a lot of blinding by science desguiseing a lack of envisageing of concepts .
If a person can concieve the manner of opperation BEFORE commiting it to paper , or metal . hes a step ahead of the thousand calculations to envisage a ' logical ' outcome .

Theyred be no progress without vissionarys and people ' outside ' the mold .

Id take it big Goodyear dirt track tyres , progressively damped long travle suspension and desert bars would get the
plot together .

The long travel stuff didnt happen till around 1980.Horses for courses . Though I cant see the monkey position of the pocket rockets as sane for circuit raceing . .Alfa threw two P3 grand prix engines in a chassis to meet the krauts 200 mph pre war .If a person didnt stick his neck out we'd never get anywhere .Its the pricks that chop them off thatre the trouble .

Matt Spencer said:

Where theyve never created a thing in their lives .other than bewilderment & dissbelief.

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In my younger days I worked for some manufacturers and they had similar problems to what you describe. It seemed to me that there were two categories of manager; those that made product and those that made politics. We may never learn about the management of existing giant corporations but did the British motorcycle industry have more political types than other British industries?

Here in Canada we have a new class of company where nearly all the management does is make politics. For example there are several ethanol plants that depend on government subsidy for 90% of their income. Their product is then incorporated into gasoline by government mandate. Was NVT as bad as that?

Murray B said:

Matt Spencer said:

Where theyve never created a thing in their lives .other than bewilderment & dissbelief.

Click to expand...

In my younger days I worked for some manufacturers and they had similar problems to what you describe. It seemed to me that there were two categories of manager; those that made product and those that made politics. We may never learn about the management of existing giant corporations but did the British motorcycle industry have more political types than other British industries?

Here in Canada we have a new class of company where nearly all the management does is make politics. For example there are several ethanol plants that depend on government subsidy for 90% of their income. Their product is then incorporated into gasoline by government mandate. Was NVT as bad as that?

Click to expand...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Whatever-Happen ... 1859604277
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Save-Triumph-Bo ... 1845842650

L.A.B. said:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Whatever-Happen ... 1859604277
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Save-Triumph-Bo ... 1845842650

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Thanks for the information, L.A.B., but I did read parts of Mr. Hopwood’s book some years ago. It was an interesting view from within the company but did not seem to correlate well with events that happened within North America. Since the U.S. was NVT’s largest customer what happened over here was very important to the fate of the company.

The “dumping” prior to 1978 did impact Harley Davidson but it also must have affected the British motorcycle industry as well. Another damaging factor that seems to have been forgotten now is how gasoline was changing after lead was banned. Norton lowered their compression ratios to 8.5:1 for the 1973 model year from a high of 10.0:1 in the Combat. This was most likely done because of declining octane numbers or other factors related to the emissions legislation. Detroit cars did likewise. A 1970 Caprice could be ordered with a 300 h.p. 350 cid engine with 10.5:1 compression. The most powerful 350 that could be ordered in a 1975 Caprice had 8.5:1 compression was rated for only 145 h.p. The latter vehicle had about half the power and consumed just about twice as much fuel as the earlier model. It was many years before true high-performance vehicles returned to the marketplace.

Matt has posted some wonderful material that I have not seen elsewhere and he may have some insight into what really happened to the British motorcycle industry.

Matt I've had to make decision to fight out a de-rimmed rear tire that made the rear pass by my shoulder - first impluse was just let go to roll away from Peel to let her hi side crash into a mess but I forced myself to try to ride out the tank slapper that broke stop bent bars by pure adrenalin hit - crying like an infant inside with fear spikes to empty bladder and bowels- if there'd been enough time for sphinters to let go. 6 mile ride back with stops every few hundred yds to cut tire bead wires out the way. I've crashed so much going mostly straight ahead I can tell ya usually there is no time to decide. I've asked other lists how they bail out by not a peep from anyone. Its about unthinkable to dismount unless aimed at truck or fence etc but so far have not had to make that decison.

My P!! wheelie me off it on 1st ride in school clothes like a flag off bars with seat popped up in my face in '71, going like 80 mph let go of throttle so bike came down, got feet on pegs then pushed seat down to see line of houses 40 yd ahead and freaked the fuck out - back into childhood sand on side walk hazard games and instinctly locked both tires pivoted completely side way to low side slide on lowered frame till hit the crub hard enough to jump bike to vertical idling at 600 like I'd just pulled up to park.

Similar things happen in small speed boats that motor mounts skew, or skeg breaks off to force a hi speed turn into shore or other boats, you get thrown out before you know it or have a chance to react. So to my mind its oxy-moron to disscuss how to bail off, it just happens or you avoid it. I've video of me crashing on Trixie when road rose to snag peg to see how I just rolled right back on feet and picked bike up to carry on. On Gravel straight line toss offs I too often end up sliding grinding under bike till we stop, some times many yds up hill or hit road bank or brush in fence.

Peel is being build to ride on crash bars and caster wheels in bar ends, she'll be lifted higher than any Cdo so her lean angle approach 70' degrees. If you can lay over that far the hi sides recover the low side and land just right for instant torque hook up out of there for the next one even faster. My worry is if Peel will have power enough to always break loose as fast as required, if not you may not ever here from em again. I do wonder if I'll ruin bike or me before getting sea legs back again. There is no 2 wheelers out there that can enter corners fast enough w/o loosing control to be able to transition into Ms Peel's orbits. Going 200 mph in freeway like mild arc less than 45' is not much a bike test just hp and streamlining. Off to work to pay more for it.