Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection.

Engine oil analysis link below available for comparison.

3000+ km Redline 20W50 Motorcycle oil.
Used in a Norton Commando 750.
Last engine teardown and rebuild in 1989.

http://www.roktex.com.au/sharedReport?published=532566

To reduce the subjectivity (i.e. opinion) in engine oil selection, please analyse your used Norton Commando engine oil and post your complete report and above info for comparison.

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

Anyone who has played with oil analysis reports would know its exceeding difficult to compare samples
if you are not using the identical same oils to begin with.
Did you submit a sample of fresh clean new oil of the same type, to compare with ?
Thats the only sample that can validly be compared, initially ?

I'd venture too that 3000 km is too far between oil changes, older engines don't run clean enough to safely push the oil that far,
unless its some of these super duper synthetic types.
And your Commando wouldn't have an oil filter either ?

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

Put up... an oil analysis, please.

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

Using a different oil to you is a useless comparison.
The oil analysis folks will tell you that upfront.

Mining Co's here use them to track machinery wear.
A regular/periodical test shows if anything abnormal starts to show up, which is where the real value of them is.

Even just changing pistons can produce totally different results, since the metal content of the pistons may now be different.
And show up as differing results in the oil analysis.
Same with differing bearing shells, piston rings and even oil seals.

Comparing samples of new and available engine oils may be a more useful exercise ?

Fuel dilution could be because you did lots of cold starts with much fuel tickling in cold weather,
or warm up idling with the choke on ??
Or the fuel taps were left on standing, and the dreaded Amals behaved accordingly...

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

I don't need to guess as I have an analysis report to act upon.
Please, do not keep guessing on my behalf. Put up... an oil analysis report of your oil when you change it.

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

needing said:

I don't need to guess as I have an analysis report to act upon.

Click to expand...

Did they give you a more lengthy explanation ??
Do you have a string of tests to refer/compare to.

I am quite certain that I could post a singular analysis for a diesel bulldozer or a lycoming engine,
and no-one would be any the wiser.
Its the repeated regular tests that show trends and sudden abnormalities that is important.
And knowing the initial analysis of the oil you are using.

Viewing some of the other analyses on that site, there were some quite baffling other results.
How can they give a good result to an oil that had almost no viscosity left ??
Unless it was one of these super thin fuel saving oils.
Which wasn't mentioned or noted...

P.S. It is also noted somewhere that if you collect your oil sample cold, or while still hot can produce considerably different results.
And if your bike has an oil filter or not will also influence what gets sampled...

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

Put up... please.

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

:roll: :roll:......... Still preaching to those that are happy to ride and change their oil ever 3k, new tyres and battery every 3 yrs or so.. Its not really that complex to own and have fun on two wheels ...........................

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

olChris said:

:roll: :roll:......... Still preaching to those that are happy to ride and change their oil ever 3k, new tyres and battery every 3 yrs or so.. Its not really that complex to own and have fun on two wheels ...........................

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Hello olChris.
Good to see you're back.
Would just love to know how your oil had fared after 3000 km (via analysis not opinion).
Would also love to know how you get a tyre to last three years or so - mine are carcass in one at most.
Ta.

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

A one time oil analysis is useless and basically tells you nothing that you can RELIABLY use.

It is only useful, as noted, if it is done periodically using EXACTLY the same collection method and with the engine at the same temperature. Pulling a sample from the top of the oil sump can produce a different result than one pulled from the bottom. Pulling them at different engine temperatures can produce a different result. Pulling them at a different "time" after startup can produce a different result.

IOW, unless you do periodic, consistent checks as fleet operators do, it's a waste of time.

I have performed a ton of oil sample checks on marine engines and I can get you all sorts of different results on the same oil/engine on the same day, simply based on how I pull the sample and what state the engine is at the time.

But, like everything else, do whatever makes you comfortable. If you feel oil samples are useful to YOU, then they are.

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

So, who will be first to get this database started?
Find out how your oil and engine components cope at the change interval you choose.
Only rebuild your engine when it needs it.
See if there are changes/improvements you can make over time.
See how your choice compares to others.
Reduce the "feel good" factor in oil preference in roadgoing Norton Commandos.

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

needing said:

Reduce the "feel good" factor in oil preference in roadgoing Norton Commandos.

Click to expand...

Wouldn't you want to IMPROVE the feel good factor ??

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

"Is good" factor via objective measurement trumps "feel good" any day - much to the chagrin of the few.

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

One oil analysis pays for near 2 oil/filter changes, and a string of tests are needed for any meaningful results,
so the economics alone are looking shaky ??

Heavy machinery which is run to destruction, effectively, is a different matter.

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

Is this what you are talking about ?

http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=4586

Or changes in viscosity ?

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

Thanks acotrel for that link. Much appreciated.
I still hope for data re Norton Commando oil analysis but get the usual guff in the meantime.
I'd better stop responding to the naysayers so that the data, when it arrives, will be easier to identify amongst the pages. Ta.

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

We would have hoped you would have read all such similar articles, prior even to having an oil test....

Really, oil analysis in a Commando is a solution looking for a problem. ??

An observant rider will pick engine wear needing a rebuild well before engine oil testing will show it.
Smoke out the pipes, piston slap noises or big end or mains knocking can be heard before an oil test would show anything abnormal.
If you think your oil may be worn out, then change it - its cheaper than getting it tested too !!

For interpreting any oil test results, it is essential that a sample of clean fresh new oil (of the same brand obviously) is done also.

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

needing said:

So, who will be first to get this database started?
Find out how your oil and engine components cope at the change interval you choose.
Only rebuild your engine when it needs it.
See if there are changes/improvements you can make over time.
See how your choice compares to others.
Reduce the "feel good" factor in oil preference in roadgoing Norton Commandos.

Click to expand...

I think you are making this more complicated than it needs to be.
Commandos were crappy bikes when they were new. The engine is the finest 1930s technology. The frame is but a patch on the ass of the featherbed. Mecrifully, Norton decided to run air filters.
Your engine needs to be rebuilt when the main bearings make a rumbling or knocking sound or when the valve guides come loose and you are enveloped in a cloud of smoke when you come to a stop.
Changes and improvements are only limited by your vanity and the size of your checkbook.
If you cared what others were doing you would be riding a new Harley or Kawasaki H1 (or whatever it is called).
I feel fine running 15W40 diesel oil with 50,000 miles on my bottom end and I know that i'll feel good picking the bike up coming out of a corner and winding on the gas even if I'm 1000 miles from home. When it needs a rebuild I'll enjoy that too.

Please, carry on, but don't expect anyone else to care too much. Kick another chair up by the fire, pop the top on a beer. Lets talk about motor oil. Here, try a slice of this fennel hot pepper salami my friend is making... Why did your oil test outfit give you a red frowny face when most of the indicators were green and only two were yellow ?

Greg

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

gjr said:

Why did your oil test outfit give you a red frowny face when most of the indicators were green and only two were yellow ?

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Fuel dilution - we'd suspect.
Engine wrecking potential.

Which is why I asked if they'd given a more comprehensive written report.

You can test this just by sniffing the oil when you change it.
If it smells like fuel in the oil, tastes like fuel in the oil, etc, it probably is a duck.

There was also mention of oxidised oil, which can be an indication the oil is simply worn out (and burnt ?).
You'd need to know how they quantify that though.
And what the new oil composition was too.

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

gjr said:

Commandos were crappy bikes when they were new. The engine is the finest 1930s technology. The frame is but a patch on the ass of the featherbed. Mecrifully, Norton decided to run air filters.

Greg

Click to expand...

Not to run too far amuck here because Needling might have a reasonable point here if one wants to watch very closely the changes that occur over time. More metal particulate could tell one that the engine is wearing...although we probably already know that. Shorter oil change intervals will likely extend the engine life some...so I get where he is going with this. Not sure I personally want to spend the time and money though.

As far as gjr's comments above, another way to look at it instead of 1930's technology maybe it's quite amazing that so many Norton's, Triumph's and BSA's are still thumping along, making our hearts flutter and throwing us down the road at an enjoyable rate of speed. As has been said many times before, Harley's technology is way older than Norton's, and they are still selling it to the masses for way more money than is even sane.

The Featherbed would rattle your teeth out with any of the engines above 650cc...so not sure what the point of the comparison is.

Now back to oil. I just spilled some on the floor...I guess that would be bad for an analysis