commando year problem?

Bigbossmonty

Bigbossmonty

Joined
Jan 19, 2012
Messages
23
Country flag
Hi
Was getting ready to register the commando Mk3 ES.
I contacted a company about this and they came back as 1973 with has confused me,
the history on NOC says MK3 Electic Start was produced from 75 to 78.
The classicenglishbikes.com appears to say the same.
engine and frame no are the same 850 333798
Can anyone comfirm the year before I pay out and get wrong dating certificate
cheers
BBM
 
Probably your best course of action would be to use the NOC dating service. They are more likely to have the appropriate records/information.

Having been through this with my 1974 850, DVLA will want all the bits of documentation to align with each other, before the system eventually says “yes”.
 
DougC said:
Probably your best course of action would be to use the NOC dating service. They are more likely to have the appropriate records/information.

Having been through this with my 1974 850, DVLA will want all the bits of documentation to align with each other, before the system eventually says “yes”.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
Andover Norton may be able to provide a Factory dispatch record, and I like to have a copy where possible, but for the purposes of registering the bike the NOC dating certificate is the way to go.
I'm not sure if anyone has had any success with the DVLA using the dispatch record, but the NOC is the recognised Authority.

How your first advisor came up with 1973 is beyond my comprehension!
 
If the NOC is the authority that’s recognised by the DVLA then that’s what you must use.

Using any other body just amplifies the risk of rejection, delay, further probing, etc.
 
Andover Norton are not registered with the DVLA as a dating specialist, so you are best going to NOC. That is a 75 number so anyone saying its a 73 does not know Norton's. If the NOC say you number is in one of their records gaps then you need to get the despatch record from AN and send that to the NOC who will then issue a Dating cert.
 
Bigbossmonty said:
Hi
Was getting ready to register the commando Mk3 ES.
I contacted a company about this and they came back as 1973 with has confused me,
the history on NOC says MK3 Electic Start was produced from 75 to 78.
The classicenglishbikes.com appears to say the same.
engine and frame no are the same 850 333798
Can anyone comfirm the year before I pay out and get wrong dating certificate
cheers
BBM
Click to expand...
Keep in mind that Norton had no "Model Years". MK3s started with 325000. If you check the serial number on the red Certification Label and the number stamped into the right side of the headstock, the last 6 numbers will match. So will the engine and gearbox if all original. They started matching around May 1975 at around 332400. Your date will probably be Jun 1975.

See: https://gregmarsh.com/MC/Norton/Info/CommandoSurvey.aspx

This is gathered info - not meant for registering bikes!
 
Greg, I found my bike on your list.
"Now I am somebody!" - Steve Martin, (upon finding himself listed in the phone book) "The Jerk".

But seriously...
AN also had no dispatch on mine 332581 - payment refunded.
1976 MK III
Originally purchased in Vancouver B.C.

I'll look into the NOC dating certificate and see what it is...
 
Edfury828 said:
Greg, I found my bike on your list.
"Now I am somebody!" - Steve Martin, (upon finding himself listed in the phone book) "The Jerk".

But seriously...
AN also had no dispatch on mine 332581 - payment refunded.
1976 MK III
Originally purchased in Vancouver B.C.

I'll look into the NOC dating certificate and see what it is...
Click to expand...
I'm not following you. There was some post here with that serial number and I have no other info and I on purpose do not tie any bike to any person unless it is one of mine. I said: "Seen on Access Norton 5/9/24" and nothing more. So, are you wanting it taken down or do you want to provide any of the details I post? I'm happy to do either :)

I'm most interested if you have a Certification Label showing a 1976 date - it should show May or June 1975 and June 1975 is most likely.
 
marshg246 said:
I'm not following you. There was some post here with that serial number and I have no other info and I on purpose do not tie any bike to any person unless it is one of mine. I said: "Seen on Access Norton 5/9/24" and nothing more. So, are you wanting it taken down or do you want to provide any of the details I post? I'm happy to do either :)

I'm most interested if you have a Certification Label showing a 1976 date - it should show May or June 1975 and June 1975 is most likely.
Click to expand...
I'm just getting off work now, but here's a shot showing my bikes main number. I'll check for that Certification label this afternoon, if it is the metal tag on the frame?

I saw yesterday the NOC info. has a fee associated which has caused me to hesitate. Probably a good investment though, I would think? I also think it must be a good thing to be documented in your database? I have nothing to hide and I want to do all I can to establish the provenance of my Commando.
 

Attachments

  • commando year problem?
    20240415_051029.webp
    127.5 KB · Views: 206
These pics must be what you mean? Maybe tomorrow I can think of what minimal info would be best for your database? Out of time tonight.
Thanks
Ed
 

Attachments

  • commando year problem?
    20240822_163116.webp
    122.7 KB · Views: 188
  • commando year problem?
    20240822_163158.webp
    150.1 KB · Views: 200
Edfury828 said:
These pics must be what you mean? Maybe tomorrow I can think of what minimal info would be best for your database? Out of time tonight.
Thanks
Ed
Click to expand...
OK, here's what I believe.
Your engine, frame, and certification label left the factor as they are.
1) By June 1975 the last six numbers stamped into the frame matched the serial number on the red certification label and the entire frame and engine numbers matched.
2) Your certification label has almost certainly always been on the bike because it has the original type and material hammer drive screws.
3) If the top of your gearbox has the same last six numbers as the other locations, then at least the gearbox shell is original.
4) It is not a "76 MK3". If it's titled that way, it's no big deal. In most states and probably Canada as well, the title/registration were essentially done by the dealer and since Norton had no "model years", they usually put the date when they did the work. You bike clearly states 6/75. In truth there's little clear about even that. When the records exist for 850s, there are about 6 data items and those tell you little. 750s usually have much less than that!

The other things interesting to me are:
1) What head (should have RH4 or RH10 stamped into the head on top near the timing side exhaust rocker.
2) The thing I wish all would tell me is the number like 00xxx which is sometimes stamped into the drive side of the head stock and knowing there is no number is just as important as knowing what the number is when is exists.
3) If there is dispatch record, I like to include that data.
4) Anything else you want to provide.
 
marshg246 said:
OK, here's what I believe.
Your engine, frame, and certification label left the factor as they are.
1) By June 1975 the last six numbers stamped into the frame matched the serial number on the red certification label and the entire frame and engine numbers matched.
2) Your certification label has almost certainly always been on the bike because it has the original type and material hammer drive screws.
3) If the top of your gearbox has the same last six numbers as the other locations, then at least the gearbox shell is original.
4) It is not a "76 MK3". If it's titled that way, it's no big deal. In most states and probably Canada as well, the title/registration were essentially done by the dealer and since Norton had no "model years", they usually put the date when they did the work. You bike clearly states 6/75. In truth there's little clear about even that. When the records exist for 850s, there are about 6 data items and those tell you little. 750s usually have much less than that!

The other things interesting to me are:
1) What head (should have RH4 or RH10 stamped into the head on top near the timing side exhaust rocker.
2) The thing I wish all would tell me is the number like 00xxx which is sometimes stamped into the drive side of the head stock and knowing there is no number is just as important as knowing what the number is when is exists.
3) If there is dispatch record, I like to include that data.
4) Anything else you want to provide.
Click to expand...
Sorry for the delay, I've been keeping busy... As you can see in the pics, I found the gearbox numbers and the RH4 as well as a Capitol "T". There were no other markings that I could find anywhere else on the head.

As for what to say about the bike, maybe call it a 6-'75 stamped MK III, originally purchased in Vancouver B.C. Canada from British Cycle Company, Imported to the USA October 2023.

There was something about the frame number too... I think it was that most Commando frames had the letter "F", but mine does not? I was told by the seller, that meant the frame was made in England, but I believe L.A.B. had a different meaning for it? It's probably not worth mentioning, but I could look into it?
 

Attachments

  • commando year problem?
    20240824_164854.webp
    128.7 KB · Views: 165
  • commando year problem?
    20240824_165125.webp
    100 KB · Views: 154
  • commando year problem?
    20240824_164950.webp
    106.2 KB · Views: 160
  • commando year problem?
    1932 BEMC.webp
    75 KB · Views: 170
Edfury828 said:
Sorry for the delay, I've been keeping busy... As you can see in the pics, I found the gearbox numbers and the RH4 as well as a Capitol "T". There were no other markings that I could find anywhere else on the head.

As for what to say about the bike, maybe call it a 6-'75 stamped MK III, originally purchased in Vancouver B.C. Canada from British Cycle Company, Imported to the USA October 2023.

There was something about the frame number too... I think it was that most Commando frames had the letter "F", but mine does not? I was told by the seller, that meant the frame was made in England, but I believe L.A.B. had a different meaning for it? It's probably not worth mentioning, but I could look into it?
Click to expand...
And A.N. had no dispatch records for it.
 
And the original selling dealership was British Motor Cycle Company, not British Cycle Company, as I erroneously stated above. From thier sign in the picture, it may have been British Motor And Cycle Company. I was told that was a well established source for British bikes in Vancouver B.C. for many decades. It was on Hastings street. No longer existing. That old picture is all that I've ever been able to find about them. If anyone knows more about them, or has other pictures, maybe a link to info about them I would be interested :)

Ed
 
Edfury828 said:
There was something about the frame number too... I think it was that most Commando frames had the letter "F", but mine does not? I was told by the seller, that meant the frame was made in England, but I believe L.A.B. had a different meaning for it? It's probably not worth mentioning, but I could look into it?
Click to expand...
From mid-May 75 on, there simply is no "F" and the last six numbers in all locations match. It has NOTHING to do with where the frame is made - it's simply how the frame number was done.

Prior to then, there is a theory that no "F" means a Renolds frame - not proven as far as I am concerned.

You can read quite a bit about this here: https://gregmarsh.com/MC/Norton/Info/CommandoSurvey.aspx
 
marshg246 said:
From mid-May 75 on, there simply is no "F" and the last six numbers in all locations match. It has NOTHING to do with where the frame is made - it's simply how the frame number was done.

Prior to then, there is a theory that no "F" means a Renolds frame - not proven as far as I am concerned.

You can read quite a bit about this here: https://gregmarsh.com/MC/Norton/Info/CommandoSurvey.aspx
Click to expand...
Fascinating frame info Greg! Thanks for calling my attention back to that page. I had quickly scanned over the lower part of the page with all of the bike's listed but didn't see the top. There is so much information and so little time! I think I need to slow down and pay attention a little better?

I am not familiar with the term "headstock". I had assumed it meant the head. Is that correct?

More detail that could be added to the statement, in whole, or part, or not; I am either the third or fourth owner. I bought my bike from a retired aircraft mechanic who owned it for about 30 years. It was well kept in original form, serviced, and loved during that time as per people I've since met who recognized the bike and knew the owner.

He bought the bike from the brother of the original owner. I don't know any details of that purchase such as why the brother had it, or if the ownership or registration had ever been changed between them.

I was told the original owner wanted a black Roadster but the dealer only had red. He refused the red one, walked out, and went back home. Later, the dealer called him back having acquired this (new) black Roadster from another dealer in Eastern Canada, and the deal was made.
 


Write your reply...

Similar threads

R
Commando 961 sport - Year 2014
2
Replies
31
Views
1,134
Stu Bodycote
Stu Bodycote
C
1975 Mk3 Commando indicator problem
Replies
11
Views
811
chrisf1
C
C
1975 Mk3 Commando ignition warning light problem
Replies
18
Views
1,687
Thomasa
Thomasa
Vicente
Norton Commando 961 electric problem
Replies
6
Views
1,407
TonyA
TonyA
Tom P
  • Locked
New Commando owner with bad sumping problem
2 3
Replies
46
Views
3,833
L.A.B.
L.A.B.
Back
Top