Clean burning Norton

jseng1

jseng1

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Nov 26, 2009
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Get your rings from total seal if you want a cleaner burning Norton. All that blow by past the ring gap is eliminated. Also be sure to use high quality valve guide seals on both intake and exhaust. The exhaust doesn't suck oil but without the exhaust seals the spent gasses will leak past the guide and contaminate your oil.
 
jseng1 said:
Get your rings from total seal if you want a cleaner burning Norton. All that blow by past the ring gap is eliminated. Also be sure to use high quality valve guide seals on both intake and exhaust. The exhaust doesn't suck oil but without the exhaust seals the spent gasses will leak past the guide and contaminate your oil.
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I had very good results with them on my BSA b50 motor
 
Interesting running seals on both intake and exhaust valves. I did that on a Trident but wondered if I did the right thing on the exhausts. No issues though.
 
jseng1 said:
Get your rings from total seal if you want a cleaner burning Norton. All that blow by past the ring gap is eliminated. Also be sure to use high quality valve guide seals on both intake and exhaust. The exhaust doesn't suck oil but without the exhaust seals the spent gasses will leak past the guide and contaminate your oil.
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So those sky blue valve guide seals you sell work on the exhaust side?

Crap I did not install them on the exhaust guides. I only put them on the intake side, and thought I had spares. lol

More tasks for the winter project list.
 
Interesting. Common wisdom is to install the seals on the intake only.
The TP heads on the 1360 have seals on both intake and exhaust. One expert suggested removing the exhaust seals. I didn't do that and so far no problems. The oil does stay very clean on that engine, almost like a modern auto.
It doesn't have the Total Seal rings though.

Glen
 
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jseng1 said:
Get your rings from total seal if you want a cleaner burning Norton. All that blow by past the ring gap is eliminated. Also be sure to use high quality valve guide seals on both intake and exhaust. The exhaust doesn't suck oil but without the exhaust seals the spent gasses will leak past the guide and contaminate your oil.
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Are exhaust guide seals still required if the gapless ring is in the second groove and not the first groove?
 
"Interesting running seals on both intake and exhaust valves."

The venturi effect from the exhaust can suck oil past the guides and into the exhaust system. For example, I got a TB from Ducati back when I had a 900ss and they recommended the bike have exhaust valve seals added. It's my understanding that most (all?) engines nowadays use both int and exhaust seals.
 
Its not as critical on the exhaust but it still makes sense to seal the exhaust guides as well. All the auto makers do it nowdays.
 
t ingermanson said:
New drinking game:

We all do shots with every post of Al's. It'll be fun and they might make more sense.
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On second thought, that's a bit mean. Sorry.

acotrel said:
Too much theory is good for the economy.
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@acotrel, are you ok? Your posts have changed in the last couple weeks. Health ok, or going through something in your life? You've got a lot to add, but your posts are not as much complete thoughts as they once were, and you seem to have gotten argumentative for sake of it. Whether we all always agree is beside the point, but there seems to be a disconnect lately.

Sorry for a temporary hijack.

Very interested in this topic (valve seals/gapless rings), as I'm trying to tackle some oil consumption myself. @jseng1, do you sell gapless rings for your pistons, or are there some that will work off the shelf for a 650?
 
t ingremanson

I can get them for the 650 through total seal for my pistons. I also stock them for 750 through 920. You can order them from me or directly through total seal. I also have the viton guide seals. Below is a vid about total seal rings at 30,000 miles I made years ago. The bike has 50,000 on it now.

 
Zero gap rings can be problematic. Smoke when not under power and diffidently when letting off. Heavier oil ring tension is part of the cure. Total Seal does not recommend them for Harley's!
 
mean green
Regular rings smoke and burn more oil than gapless or regular rings with wider gaps. Ring gaps only create blow by. The same ring gapped to zero has less blow by and burns cleaner. Gapping to zero also works on race bikes - I got that tip from another racer and gapped mine to .008" cold - this was before gapless rings were available. The zero gap works great unless you go too far and the rings can't expand and scuff the cylinder.

Gapless rings are not recommended on Harleys when you use a top gapless ring. Its fine when you use a 2nd gapless ring. The problem is that the vacuum is so great with a top gapless ring that you suck oil past the guide. This is why they can smoke when letting off the power as you say. So you either have to use a gapless ring in the 2nd slot or you have to go to tight teflon guide seals which gives the best of everything. You can't install gapless top rings without also improving the guide seal or you are inviting the problem you mentioned. So with gapless top rings you have to go with the tight teflon guide seals and then your motor is going to burn cleaner than it ever would with regular rings. In other words you have to improve the guide seal when you improve the ring seal and engine vacuum at idle or de-accelleration.

I recommend that you make a comparison on your Norton. Run your bike with regular rings, record the oil consumption and do a leak down test. Then install gapless rings and watch your oil consumption go down. The leak down test will improve (see vid in previous thread). Be sure you are using good viton guide seals (or Teflon).

I've made the tests. I don't blindly accept other peoples word or opinions. I've had to rebuild engines all over again because the ring gap recommended by "experts" ended up with a motor that smoked at idle. I use gapless rings in the 2nd groove and viton guide seals on all my vehicles now.
 
t ingermanson said:
On second thought, that's a bit mean. Sorry.



@acotrel, are you ok? Your posts have changed in the last couple weeks. Health ok, or going through something in your life? You've got a lot to add, but your posts are not as much complete thoughts as they once were, and you seem to have gotten argumentative for sake of it. Whether we all always agree is beside the point, but there seems to be a disconnect lately.

Sorry for a temporary hijack.

Very interested in this topic (valve seals/gapless rings), as I'm trying to tackle some oil consumption myself. @jseng1, do you sell gapless rings for your pistons, or are there some that will work off the shelf for a 650?
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I am in Cairns on holiday using a phone. Be home Wednesday
 
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