Caution - Useless MOT testers

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Madnorton

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Sadly there is now a case of someone having to go from matching numbers to non matching numbers even though they have a V5 which they have been asked to change. A Norton Commando has been restored and presented for an MOT after 8 years, where the tester did not recognise a VIN plate and said the number actually on the frame is different to that on the computer system, and reported it to DVLA. Despite records from the NOC and factory certificate from AN, DVLA are of the opinion that the frame number is the governing number and not the engine number and so a battle begins. With the younger MOT testers I think think this will become more of a problem in the future, and the picture will become distorted for some bikes. The clueless at DVLA only know the modern method of marking vehicles and will apply this logic to historic vehicles, adding fuel to the fire.

This may also be a problem for those who have replaced a frame, it seems that the current guidance is that the engine number must match the frame number actually stamped in the frame, all should match the computer.
 
I have 3 MOT's in the next couple of weeks been going to the same bloke for years , it's a thirty odd mile round trip and the test is not a cheapie, the tester checks every nut bolt and spoke. But at least I know my bike is right and I know exactly what I'm getting, no bullshit and no nasty surprises from the DVLA. Plus it's a great run on a Saturday afternoon . Old school every time for me!!
I have had wrong numbers on the v5 and informed the dvla sent my V5 back to then and they changed it no fuss.
Jg
 
Well if you don't have a understanding intelligent mot tester :wink: Don't let them see the "frame" number fill it with body filler and paint over, then they have to accept the number on the plate, as I recall they are not permitted to scrape or damage paint work.
 
The only thing to do is keep fighting.

The NOC should really be trying harder, or even the DVLA should be, as although there are lots of permutations - the VIN sometimes being same as engine number and sometimes the frame number, I would think that there should at least have been batches over periods of time that showed similar numbering runs, e.g. maybe a batch of engine number VIns and then a period of Frame number VINs.

My mark III has the frame number for a VIN (also visible under paint on the headstock), but the engine number stamped as serial on the headstock tag. When I asked the NOC they acknowledged that and said best to let sleeping dogs lie, after all this way I have correct frame number and correct engine number listed. They also said their records are very poor for the later models.

Much simpler in the old days - my Dominater Vin = chassis = engine, all the same.

I did win an argument with DVLA over a Daimler I own, - having good records I was able to prove that on computerisation in 1975 THEY had transposed figures, a great moment that.
 
Wow, this is a tough read for a poor old US acronim challenged person.
 
Madnorton said:
Sadly there is now a case of someone having to go from matching numbers to non matching numbers even though they have a V5 which they have been asked to change. A Norton Commando has been restored and presented for an MOT after 8 years, where the tester did not recognise a VIN plate and said the number actually on the frame is different to that on the computer system, and reported it to DVLA. Despite records from the NOC and factory certificate from AN, DVLA are of the opinion that the frame number is the governing number and not the engine number and so a battle begins. With the younger MOT testers I think think this will become more of a problem in the future, and the picture will become distorted for some bikes. The clueless at DVLA only know the modern method of marking vehicles and will apply this logic to historic vehicles, adding fuel to the fire.

This may also be a problem for those who have replaced a frame, it seems that the current guidance is that the engine number must match the frame number actually stamped in the frame, all should match the computer.
Click to expand...

WTF? And I thought the USA was a nanny state. There are no motorcycle inspections in California! Just pay the annual fee!
 
Clanger said:
The only thing to do is keep fighting.

The NOC should really be trying harder, or even the DVLA should be, as although there are lots of permutations - the VIN sometimes being same as engine number and sometimes the frame number, I would think that there should at least have been batches over periods of time that showed similar numbering runs, e.g. maybe a batch of engine number VIns and then a period of Frame number VINs.

My mark III has the frame number for a VIN (also visible under paint on the headstock), but the engine number stamped as serial on the headstock tag. When I asked the NOC they acknowledged that and said best to let sleeping dogs lie, after all this way I have correct frame number and correct engine number listed. They also said their records are very poor for the later models.

Much simpler in the old days - my Dominater Vin = chassis = engine, all the same.

I did win an argument with DVLA over a Daimler I own, - having good records I was able to prove that on a computerisation in 1975 THEY had transposed figures, a great moment that.
Click to expand...

I have and did have, the first one I haven't done anything about it and the second they changed it over without incident both had the s down as a 5 .
 
MikeM said:
Wow, this is a tough read for a poor old US acronim challenged person.
Click to expand...

DVLA = Dept of Vehicle Licencing Authority.
Would have been better to call them GOD, but that one is already taken.

Based somewhere 'centrally', like Swansea in Wales, so you can't just pop down and argue with them,
except by post ?
 
My 74 MK2A was registered initially on the F number stamped on the headstock by the Italian frame maker and not on the number stamped on the red plate which matches the engine number, it was the first dealer that did the deed but it does not stop it being a matching numbers bike as both numbers are in plain sight and unaltered. I would prefer the V5 to be matching but I am sure the DVLA would consider it a frame change so have not tried. So its not only modern MOT testers that get it wrong, the dealers did in 74 too.
 
From the MOT manual, pre 1st Aug 1999 bikes don't even need a VIN, so how all the fuss?
https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/ ... 000303.htm
I took my Commando for test last year, local bloke and not exactly young but when he queried swing arm 'flex' he suggested the swing arm bushes could be shot. I explained about Isolastics having a slight amount of side play which was probably what he was feeling, and he looked at me like I was mad. He had never heard of Isolastics, let alone know how they worked. He is wary of me 'cos I used to MOT bikes...HTH
Cheers, Martin
 
sportsroof said:
From the MOT manual, pre 1st Aug 1999 bikes don't even need a VIN, so how all the fuss?
Click to expand...

The problem appears to arise because the computer system (and the V5) show the vehicle does have an actual 'VIN/Chassis/Frame' number.
 
L.A.B. said:
sportsroof said:
From the MOT manual, pre 1st Aug 1999 bikes don't even need a VIN, so how all the fuss?
Click to expand...

The problem appears to arise because the computer system (and the V5) show the vehicle does have an actual 'VIN/Chassis/Frame' number.
Click to expand...

Got my 71 MOT ed today and Jimmy the tester said they have do a refresher course......every five years. He says it's the Vin that the bike is tested under ,two years ago the vin was entered incorectly on the mot and the DVLA contacted me. I sent my mot certificate back to them and they issued me a new correct one direct fron Swansea obviously picked up by the computer system, but it was no big deal.

Jg
 
kommando said:
My 74 MK2A was registered initially on the F number stamped on the headstock by the Italian frame maker and not on the number stamped on the red plate which matches the engine number, it was the first dealer that did the deed but it does not stop it being a matching numbers bike as both numbers are in plain sight and unaltered. I would prefer the V5 to be matching but I am sure the DVLA would consider it a frame change so have not tried. So its not only modern MOT testers that get it wrong, the dealers did in 74 too.
Click to expand...

Both my 850s were registered on the 'F' number, so a 'matching numbers' bike is a bit of a misnomer.

When we had a local DVLA office in Preston I took my ex-race Ducati 900ss for inspection and the guy was hesitant to give me a registration because the number wasn't stamped on the headstock, but was on the LH engine plate on the frame.
'They're all like that' I said.
'My book says 'headstock'' he said...
'Does your book mention Ducatis specifically?'
'No'.
He eventually gave up and gave me the number...
 
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