Breaking in - Oil changes possibly change to Synthetic?

Status
Not open for further replies.
N

Nigeldtr

Joined
Jul 26, 2012
Messages
133
I have just finished a complete engine and gearbox rebuild. Re-bore, re-grind, cam followers ground, head overhauled etc etc. Gearbox has some new gears, all bearings and layshaft roller, it was one heck of a job for me as PO had ripped studs out of the head and oil pump consequently knackering the crankcases and head. Another long story – so much for “my mate is a mechanic” was a real blacksmith special!

Anyway, I have now done 200 miles and she is running super. Head re-torqued and valve clearances re-adjusted at 50 miles. Surprising how slack the head bolts were and the exhaust rings had worked loose – now tight and wired to the rocker cover nuts, seems to work fine!

Prior to starting, I pumped the crank full with 15-40W (still quite cool here) regular Diesel/Car oil (no particular extra additives) via an adaptor and pipe connected to banjo where the rocker feed normally connects. Took a long time to fill but worked well, eventually it started to drip out of the crankcase drain plug hole so I knew it was coming through via the big end journals – good tip from the forum!

I did the same to prime the oil filter and return feed lines, eventually oil appeared at the return outlet in the tank. Also bled the feed pipe to the pump to get the air out and then started her up! Oil pressure was there almost immediately and return worked straight away (I have an external pressure gauge fitted). I basically did all of this because the pistons and rings had been fitted “dry “ (the cam was covered in assembly grease) and wanted oil splashing around asap also hoped the “lower” viscosity oil would give faster general oil flow.

I was thinking of dumping the initial oil and filter now and also switching the Synthetic 20-50 oil with some additional friction reducers etc – is now the time to do this (200 miles).

Thanks
 
If you have good oil for diesel engines available I would use that, my valve adjustment rate went way down after I switched years ago. Too bad the USA with their restrictive laws regarding diesel soot, demanded oil that does not have the good stuff in it anymore. Remember asking for oil preference opinions is like asking for opinions about religion or politics
 
There is oil available here in Germany for Diesel engines of high milage with plenty of friction reducers etc. Looked quite good but the majorty of what I have read, pointed to Synthetic oils simply holding up better on those hot summer days especially in air cooled engines.

Don't mean to start another long debate but then again, why not? Like religion oil is probably more about personal experience :)
 
jimbo said:
Too bad the USA with their restrictive laws regarding diesel soot, demanded oil that does not have the good stuff in it anymore.
Click to expand...
Don't blame all of us for the anal-retentive nature of the California legislature.

Sorry, Jerry, no offence intended.
 
Personally, I would put a few more miles on it before changing to synthetic Nigel. Minimum 500, ideally closer to 1000.
 
Glad I missed ou on blacksmithed oil pump mounting correction. Change oil and filter now as main reason is to catch initial swarf of sealant and metal chips that could collect in passages instead of sump tank or sludge trap. Open filter to see what's caught for peace of mind or tossing and turning each ride. Best place for a magnet is on the filter can. You might end up like me on torque value to keep the crush on head and headers hooked on and oil filter too if not trapped on. I mostly end up with 15/40 diesel grade oil though 20/50 don't leak or burn up as fast. Synthetic is good for our oil cooking engines as oil can get over 400'F as it passes through exht side of head though the whole mass of oil reads normal. Ring sealing should happen in a few minutes and new cam bedding about 20-30 min so your break in is done. Its worth while to change a new built gearbox lube to before the long haul. Last few years on cold starts I rev up into 2000's like each start was a cam break in and rather pleased not to see much fuzz to detect on the sump plug compared to the gingerly tenderly baby burping long slow warm up in worse state to run any engine. Get a camera for us old voyeurs.
 
There should never be a more polluted grity state of oil than the first few minutes of initial start and warm up so that is when I change the first diesel hi detergent oil out before re-torque and heading out for 1st pensive ride. I change 2nd oil about 50-100 miles, re-torque on cool down, then normal oil changes of 4-5000 miles or so after that, with top ups of course. You can search 'too frequent oil changes' to make up your own mind on when to renew "old" oil. I don't change oil filter much after first exam before riding off as most the stuff they are designed to catch has already been caught by time you head out first time. I was depressed studying the engine oil filter function as regards to friction-wear size particles I used to think oil filter helped with to find they pass that size stuff like flys through a fence to end up as sludge deposits. Cutting open oil filter is tricky not to get cuttings inside to upset the findings.
 
Nigeldtr said:
I have just finished a complete engine and gearbox rebuild. Re-bore, re-grind, cam followers ground, head overhauled etc etc. Gearbox has some new gears, all bearings and layshaft roller, it was one heck of a job for me as PO had ripped studs out of the head and oil pump consequently knackering the crankcases and head. Another long story – so much for “my mate is a mechanic” was a real blacksmith special!

Anyway, I have now done 200 miles and she is running super. Head re-torqued and valve clearances re-adjusted at 50 miles. Surprising how slack the head bolts were and the exhaust rings had worked loose – now tight and wired to the rocker cover nuts, seems to work fine!

Prior to starting, I pumped the crank full with 15-40W (still quite cool here) regular Diesel/Car oil (no particular extra additives) via an adaptor and pipe connected to banjo where the rocker feed normally connects. Took a long time to fill but worked well, eventually it started to drip out of the crankcase drain plug hole so I knew it was coming through via the big end journals – good tip from the forum!

I did the same to prime the oil filter and return feed lines, eventually oil appeared at the return outlet in the tank. Also bled the feed pipe to the pump to get the air out and then started her up! Oil pressure was there almost immediately and return worked straight away (I have an external pressure gauge fitted). I basically did all of this because the pistons and rings had been fitted “dry “ (the cam was covered in assembly grease) and wanted oil splashing around asap also hoped the “lower” viscosity oil would give faster general oil flow.

I was thinking of dumping the initial oil and filter now and also switching the Synthetic 20-50 oil with some additional friction reducers etc – is now the time to do this (200 miles).

Thanks
Click to expand...

Be careful... not all synthetics are a good choice. The ant-wear additives that were phased out are still available... in "Racing Oil". (OFF-ROAD, closed course racing is exempt from EPA regs, thus, the good stuff) So.. Valvoline's VR-1 Racing Oil is a good (non-synth) choice and some other brands as well. Amsoil makes some great choices if you're going synthetic. Remember, these bikes do not share the engine oil with the clutch, so "wet clutch compatible, motorcycle specific" oils are not always the best choice (although many have good anti-wear levels).

Warm weather: http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/m ... e=MCSQT-EA

Multi-grade: http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/m ... e=MCVQT-EA
 
Thanks for the replies!

I could not find Amsoil here in Germany but found:

http://www.motul.com/system/product...1/original/7100_4T_20W-50_(GB).pdf?1362492754

Which looks like a good oil but with low additives due to it being used in wet clutch engines.

I also found some MoS2 Additive

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/medi ... tiv_EN.pdf

Which together will hopefully give plenty of protection. The question is, when to put it in without hindering the running in process but preventing unnecessary wear?

Regards
 
The running in process was done once rings stopped smoking and cam/lifters burnished in before first oil change. Race engines taken right out on track are known to have best run in style, **as long as well warmed before giving em the spurs. For more details that may go against the grain of gently burping a new born animal baby, search up best engine break in methods. Basically want to avoid melting bore/ring interface by short harsh loadings then cool down, such as should be done on first few starts with re-torque each time.
 
Hi Hobot,

To be honest, I never noticed any smoke when I started her up! Went straight up to 2500 and kept her spinning around this while blipping to about 3500 do the timing. I could not face running a 5000 so set at 28 degrees - just a guess that the advance is about right at mid-range. The oil should have been flung out of the “full” crank onto the bores almost immediately, so should have kept the skirts and rings cool enough during the initial rubbing phase - time will tell!

Once I had done the timing, switched off, did some quick checks and then put on the first few miles making good use of the throttle but not over 4000. No issues at all, no nipping up nothing, just pure enjoyment, hope it stays like it. Initially I had the valves at .012 (unwittingly put in a 4S cam, noticed too late :oops: ) which after tightening down the head are now set to .016 so these are a little nosy but you can't hear them above the growl of the exhaust :D. The 4S seems fine and not lumpy, tick over is currently set high, about 1200 and she just purrs, open her up and there is bags of torque and super exhaust tone - I am in love again - mega addictive!!

PS used mushroom head adjusters and matched the push rods to the skimmed head – they work lovey and “roll” across the stem of the valves. I will definitely fit these to my 750 project!

Regards
 
Nigeldtr why ya asking us for break in advice as I'd let ya break mine in by your style too. The dry ring install is known to seat rings dang quick and smokeless, so did ya? and just not wanting to face forum flake over it? I had mushrooms in past Peel but ain't bothering on next Peel just get rocker centered. Light mushrooms might be more benefit on the 4S and no downsides I know of but what it takes to install them. Your engine report sounds like its a well done deal a 100 miles prior and as fresh and ready to race around on as it will ever be [till next time] so why delay enjoying what ya got now? On my first ever [any] engine rebuild on Peel w/o proper head at home I substittued a standard head and Miki carb and timidly restrain like you for 1000 miles pensive as shit on my assemblly till 1000 mile mark couldn't take it anymore PLUS still suffering deep depression how funky slow and ill handling Commandos were compared to my Vtwin semi-sports bike and race set up Ninja 900 at corner school, I tired to break Peel and cause some handling upset as excuse to part out and be rid of something I could not enjoy with other hot shot hot rods out here, so run her mercilessly deep into redzone and extreme handling states, to change my life focus and opinion forever. Do some low air tire practice to get sense of what's lurking pulling 4S trigger into unkown surface texture turns with some wind gusts. Then creep up on over pressure to see how fine that can be except for cross rough off road stuff. Fouling on leans may get ya before anything else though.
 
I used Mobil VR-1 50W and still am using it almost 1500 after rebuild, but I'm about to go to Mobile V-Twin syn the next time I get it out. I never had any smoking or troubles from the get go, everything looks clean as far as the plugs and exhaust. Got it running at 2500 from the start and it wasn't long after initial start I had it on the road and under load. The new rings seemed to break in right away with a light hone on the original cylinders at 12000 miles. I'm hoping the 20W50 syn will make it a bit easier to push over when cold. I'm not getting any younger.

Don't know if you can find Mobil in EU, but some of the diesel oils are pretty good.

Dave
69S
 
In Germany, I would use what I could buy in Aldi or Lidl, cheap full synthetic and most probably of high spec demanded by VW / Mercedes etc.
 
If you are happy to use a Diesel spec oil, then VW 505.01 grade oil for the Pumpe Duse series, It is widely available in semi and full synthetic and would be my choice. It contains extreme high pressure additives.
The PD engine has the high pressure injectors operated by very narrow camshaft lobes and is very highly loaded, higher than perhaps you are likely to see in a Norton engine. The engine has proved extremely reliable and durable, providing the spec oil is changed according to plan.

Personally I wouldn't add anything. Who knows if there are any compatibility issues? Certainly it is unlikely the manufacturer has tested your combination.

I switched my Guzzi to Mobil 1 when it first became available over here in UK, mid '80's? Now done over 160,000 miles.
I have stripped it down once to mess about with squish and twin plugged and skimmed the heads so flat top pistons gave a reasonable CR but put it all back together as was. All pistons/rings, bores, bearings and journals fine.
Maybe its time for another peek?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Flatspot
  • Locked
Should I change the main bearing oil seal?
Replies
9
Views
1,115
gortnipper
gortnipper
Soundbite
  • Locked
MK3 engine oil change with an ant-wet sumping valve
2
Replies
29
Views
4,724
seattle##gs
S
S
  • Locked
vacuum pump oil changes
Replies
10
Views
1,336
Ibex
I
Y
  • Locked
Change from mineral to syntetic oil
Replies
3
Views
771
JimC
J
Back
Top