I've searched this site without success--is there any nondetergent 30W break-in oil widely available?
Tim Kraakevik
kraakevik@voyager.net
Tim Kraakevik
kraakevik@voyager.net
Break-In Oil
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Is this for a 1920s type tractor ??
Nortons wouldn't have ever recommended anything like that.
Why start now.
I'm just cleaning out an old donk that would have been run on that stuff - sludge and black soot accumulations all through the motor.
If it was then run on detergent oil, all that stuff would go into circulation - until it got to the oil filter at least.
Straight 40, or maybe a good 20w/50 is what the factory suggested.
Good advice ?
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The alternate answer is - aaaaggghhhh !!!!!, an oil thread......
Nortons wouldn't have ever recommended anything like that.
Why start now.
I'm just cleaning out an old donk that would have been run on that stuff - sludge and black soot accumulations all through the motor.
If it was then run on detergent oil, all that stuff would go into circulation - until it got to the oil filter at least.
Straight 40, or maybe a good 20w/50 is what the factory suggested.
Good advice ?
----------------------
The alternate answer is - aaaaggghhhh !!!!!, an oil thread......
Brooking 850
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Joe Gibbs BR (Driven it sometimes called) oil is good , it allows you to load the motor either on the road or on the dyno and with race motors allows at least one light race session before having to change it to Joe Gibbs HD 50
Designed for flat tappet motors.
Torco also produce a good break in product, these are manufactured in the States
Regards Mike
Designed for flat tappet motors.
Torco also produce a good break in product, these are manufactured in the States
Regards Mike
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My Trixie was broken in and run on nothing but 15/40 Rotella diesel oil and recently had cam in hand to see absolutely no wear at all nor on lifters. I always rev right up to cam surf range on first starts wet dumped or not. Trixie had 7+k miles before leak resealing with over 200 miles of WOT into red line. There should never be as much stuff to suspend and flush out than on initial run in so hi detergent makes sense. Just avoid the extra slippery synthetics on first oil flush. ZADP content does not matter on initial oil as the surfaces will not have gotten hot enough to lay down any protective layer so ignore that feature on break in oil.
Ya know, lawn mowers get a bad wrap. The poor things hardly ever get an oil change at all, let alone good oil. Half of them spend the winter months safely stored under a blanket of snow with just the handle sticking out to mark their location. And come summer they run "full tilt boogy" from start up to shut down.comnoz said:
WZ507 said:
"As soon as the engine starts, it needs to be revved to 1500 to 2200 RPM and keep there for 20 to 30 minutes while the cam and rings are seating. Varying the RPM helps seat the rings more quickly. "
What do folks think of this advice in that article. ?
I'd have said go ride it, and forget revving it at standstill all that time......
Brooking 850
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I think that may apply to a water cooled motor in the context that article is written in, go ride as you say, keep the revs down less than 3500 rpm and use the brakes to load the engine or a slightly up and down hill run for the first 50 miles
Regards Mike
Regards Mike
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Good scope of opinions article Kurt. When I buildt Peel before learning about the services of Nortoneers auto hot rod shops advised me and one gave me a pack of break in stuff to apply and I opened it to look and if was so freaking it make STP seem like warm tea thin so I called it grease and got a lecture from the owner it was not grease just very thick oil that would stay put a long time before starting. I diped knife blade in it and it took over night for a drop to fall off!. I used left overs with STP in tube resivoir feeding swing arm spindle on perfect manufactured indexed fitted to alu cradel while hanging from rafters over winter to see it all leaked out by spring so became a real greaser there. At over 2000-4500 rpm blips it took Trixie Combat with crank pumped full with jugs at TDC till ran out the sump but still took 43 sec before faomy grey juk appeared in tank then at 56 sec piston smoke stopped then most a minute later unareated oil spitted into tank and out cap. I dry install rings and now add Bon Ami dusting just like TotalRing finally caught onto with their 'special' power a decade+ ago. Only thing to really think about if cam/lifters new - is the cam and lifters so I aways do on every first start of the day like a break in event. I treated Peel like the rest of ya, as if a living baby that needed to be gently burped a bit before putting down to crawl away, with fliter and only the good old Mobil One - yet found 1/8"+ fuzz on sump plug every time I looked. I treated Trixie to my wet sumped let er rip logic and have not seen fuzz on sump plug and I tested her wildly the first season before behaving normal for preservation. A lot of ring break in advise only concerned water cooled 2 smokes and sort of applies to us - is avoiding over heating the bores so the hone ridges don't melt and gall before rings wear in on them. But they have no cam worries which is rather more to woory about. Will post a good close up of Trixies 2S cam as better than new finish and same for comnoz surfaced lifters, There is no hint of difference between lobe tips to base circle surfaces, yea! Do probe carb air boots now and then for cracks sucking in grit unkown. After oil flush open oil filter for more insights.
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Rohan said:
That is VITAL for a new camshaft - in fact, the revs are too low. Any cam maker's instructions will state at least 2500 RPM for a minimum of 20 minutes. It is not necessary for ring seating and actually isn't good for that at all. In fact, the best ring seating is obtained by varying the load on the engine - this cannot be done without the vehicle on the road or a dyno.
When we raced/built competition performance motors, complete break in could be accomplished in 10 minutes on a dyno - AFTER the 30 minutes for cam break in - or a half hour at the track with ten 1/4 mile runs or equivalent on the dyno, using increasing RPM/load on each successive run. NOTE that in using a dyno, it has to be a REAL dyno that can load the engine, NOT an inertial dyno; the best use of an inertial (other than as a boat anchor) is at summer "motorcycle events" where folks are invited to "dyno" their bikes between beers.
Any good engine oil will work fine for break in. Use whatever oil you plan to use in the bike.
Any regular oil will do. If you are not running an oil filter there may be an arguement to made for non-detergent oil, but otherwise any oil. Change it at about 50 miles and again at 500. Don't thrash your bike for the first 1000 miles and you should be good to go. And be sure to check in the oil tank to see that you have oil returning as soon as you start it ( well, a few seconds anyway).
Greg
Greg
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Rohan said:
I have never seen any cam manufacturer that did not recommend this break-in period. they want to make sure the cam is moving fast enough to create hydrodynamic planing of the lifter. At lower speeds the reduced contact area of a "rough" new cam can easily cause metal to metal contact and scuffing. Jim
comnoz said:
Did Nortons specify this cam break in procedure ?
Have you seen Norton cams that were scuffed because they missed it ??
We have recently seen that factory test riders took new bikes for a quick spin (20+ miles ?) before they were crated or shipped out.
This would have been it..... ?
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So . . . . there may be a conflict between what engine speed is optimal for a breaking in a cam versus seating piston rings?
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