Be careful buying a Commando...

I posted another thread that I had discovered that the Commando I purchased in '06 had a 750 clutch pressure plate in a '73 850 Commando motor. This was the latest thing I found wrong in a Norton I bought from a well-known Britt-bike outfit in the USA. So I thought I'd post this so people can exercise reasonable caution and due diligence, which I did not...

I purchased my bike from a Very Well Known company based on internet recommendations. Initially, I contacted them by phone, talked to the owner, told him I wanted to buy/pick up a pre-MKIII 850 there and ride it back to NY. We discussed different bikes they had available. He sent me pics and we agreed on one that he said I could hop on and ride the trip with absolutely no difficulty and he "guaranteed" it would be perfectly tuned and ready for me to ride when I picked it up. I said OK and I paid the 6500 bucks (2006) he was asking. It then turned out that due to work, I could not pick up the bike so I called to advise and he said he would ship it to me in NY for 700 bucks and that's what we did. It's worth noting that the pics, AND the actual bike when delivered looked literally brand new but...

When delivered, it took several hours of work to get it to even fire, let alone run. I then, over the first week I owned it found:

There was no oil at all in either front fork. One fork managed to dump a few tablespoons of incredibly black, thick, odoriferous goo out of the drain. the other was totally dry/rusted.

One rear shock had NO action at all. Turned out that the rod and the piston had rotted out/disconnected. So one shock sort of worked, the other had just a spring. I rebuilt the forks using the Fauth mod and installed new Hagons on the rear.

The ignition system (Boyer) could not produce anything but a very weak, yellow spark. Fortunately, I had an original Commando points/plate/AAU and converted it back and it then started/ran with no difficulty. I ran that ignition for several years until the TrisSpark showed up. It's had that ever since BUT...IMO the OEM points/AAU produces better power in all ranges than an E-system. But obviously maintenance is involved with points...then again, not as often as other routine, more difficult maintenance...

The wheels/tires were totally mismatched with a much taller/wider than stock rear wheel/tire and a much shorter front so the handling was...well...strange. I replaced them with OEM 19" wheels/4.10 Avon roadrunner tires.

All the isolastic rubbers were essentially non functional due to age. I rebuilt the system with new rubbers and adjusted the play appropriately.

The bike would blow a considerable quantity of oil smoke both when power was applied and when lifting off/reapplying power. That worked well as far as keeping the local mosquitos at bay but didn't do much for engine efficiency. Turned out rings weren't sealing/valve seals were shot. I rebuilt the engine - and discovered that it had been rebuilt sometime in the past and the cyls were .040 over.

The chain had worn a rather large gouge in the chain case due to misalignment of the associated parts. I corrected this/installed a CNW 520 chain kit.

The Amal were a disaster - badly warped sealing surfaces due to overtightening and the carbs had different main jets. Additionally, both float levels were dramatically different and neither was anywhere close to spec. On the good side, they had been re-sleeved so they were basically in good condition.

Literally NOTHING on the bike worked properly and basically, with the condition of the suspension, it was a seriously unsafe piece of kit.


I tend toward the "well I bought it sight unseen relying on the company's reputation so I did it to myself" philosophy. Therefore I just sucked it up and corrected everything. That was my introduction to Old Britts and with their help
I turned the bike into a really nice Commando.

My point here is that I would advise folks to NEVER buy a bike without carefully checking it out IN PERSON. Obviously if it's a "garage find" you KNOW that it will need a thorough going-over and probably a fair amount of parts. My error was in ASSUMING that a well-know Britt bike re-seller was actually honest and accurately represented what they were selling. DO NOT make that mistake. Remember, anyone trying to sell you something is doing exactly that, trying to SELL you something. Unless you know the person and trust them from personal experience, assume they are lying to you. Even if that assumption ends up being incorrect, it's a lot safer!

Sorry for the rant but the discovery of the wrong pressure plate in the clutch assembly today re-ignited my feelings re my poor judgment in trusting an outfit considered to be "reliable."

My experience was nowhere near as bad, but it left a bad taste in my mouth. I bought my Mk2A in 1998 from a dealer that had sold Commandos, Tridents and, I believe, Rocket 3s new, and is still in business today. Unlike one very well known but now defunct dealer, they let me take their bike for a test ride, which gave me a good feeling, and the bike seemed ok. I asked that they give it a full service before I picked it up a few days later, and the dealer, after whom the business is named, agreed. After having it a little while, I started digging around, to see what was what. The one thing I especially remember finding was that the spin-on oil filter was obviously very old, and the only way I could shift it was to bash a screwdriver through it so I could get it started. Full service? I don't think they'd touched it. Don't say yes and then not do something – if you think that's extra, say so, at least then I know where I stand. At the time, they were handy for me to get parts from over the counter, but over time it became clear that they were smug b*st*rds who thought customers were know-nothing nuisances. The guy in the workshop was great, he was helpful and had been servicing these bikes since whenever, he knew them inside out, but the boss and his son – ugh. I haven't had anything to do with them in many years now. The crazy thing is, if I'd known what to look for, I could have spotted that oil filter before I rode away. So yes, do your research before you part with your money – but when you're not familiar with a particular machine, it's hard. Good service is hard to find, and 'caveat emptor' isn't good enough. OTOH, after all these years I still have the same bike. No thanks to that dealer, though.

The guy that recently bought my black 850 Roadster told me he'd driven all over the country to look at 3 different allegedly mint condition bikes - over 600 miles total.
None of the bikes were even close to the description, and I think they were all dealer bikes in the £10K territory.
Some things never change...

There's no crying when it comes to buying old vehicles. But I agree about the smug bit........"my advice to you is check it" he said with the self satisfaction that comes with being a complete prick, dealer in Elgin. The speedo stopped working on the way back fron the MOT, on inspection of vehicle documents the mileage had not altered in ten years. You've got to love these guys.

I spent 3 years looking for a good Norton. I soon realised all the classic motorbike dealers I contacted in the UK, must have been 30+, they basically polish the bikes & sell them on. They knew nothing about the history of the Nortons they were selling & gave no guarantees/warranties.

I eventually found a chap who had retired and was rebuilding Nortons as a hobby. He had built himself and a mate two 850 MK2's, shipped them over to the USA and did just under 15K miles in 12 weeks, so he understood how to build a reliable Norton.

I got an 850 MK3 he had built originally for his son in law.

The more I work on the bike the more I appreciate all the attention to detail he put into his builds, I've toured a fair bit around Ireland & the UK on the Norton & apart from the usual maintenance issues its been a great bike.

The only issues I've had have been self inflicted, don't ask!!!

So my advice is take your time, try & find as much history about the bike as you can. As I said the dealers I contacted were useless, didn't know if the bike had been rebored or if any engine work had been done etc. etc.

The other option is to purchase a Norton in need of a full restoration & create your own history on the bike!

Here in Ontario we just refused a $3000 one that was horrid , to be kind. The seller refused to go less. Rustoleum.

Why is there a hesitation about revealing the names of theses mystery shops? :shock:

jimbo said:

Why is there a hesitation about revealing the names of theses mystery shops? :shock:

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Law suites, especially here in the states where virtually all plaintiffs are victims whether they have a case or not. This mentality is also the driving force behind the flood of blue ribbons for 13th place..Maximum worse in Massachusetts where a guy, former police officer, gets full disability for being in a vehicle accident while on duty, but then starts a construction company, gets filmed swinging an axe and picking up a tree trunk, gets hauled into court and pleads NOT GUILTY, fortunately for us generous taxpayers this POS was found guilty!

Sickening when you can't call a spade a spade!

Don't say a damn, take a gram...

Yes , Law suits are more freely thrown around in the U.S. than here in Canada. :roll:

Its like anything you buy second hand, you can't trust anyone that is selling to tell the turf or be honest and dealers are the worst, but then you do get the honest seller sometimes, thats where reading body language comes in handy, I am good at picking when someone is lying to me.
But buying anything without any knollege what your buying is asking for trouble, but I have been caught out with a dodgy deal before, its a hard way to learn but makes you a better judge next time and who is ever going to know the full history of anything that is over 40 years old unless its a one owner who is honest, putting trust in people you don't know as there are so many dishonest people around that are good at it, you just got to trust yourself to catch them out and walk away if it don't feel right.
Remember not all are dishonest and even harder to fine the honest ones.

Ashley

Torontonian said:

Yes , Law suits are more freely thrown around in the U.S. than here in Canada. :roll:

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baloney.... on a website , speaking freely and honestly there would be very little to go to court over , IMHO

If that's the case then start naming the names.

Well there's nothing to stop anyone expressing an opinion – I was just being coy when I posted about smug b*st*rds, because I have a low tolerance of dramah ... But while I'm here, I might explain that my conclusion about their nature took a while to develop, and involved buying a brand new Triumph Sprint ST from them a couple of years after I bought the Commando. I was already disappointed over the Commando purchase, but again they were handy at the time, and I reckoned that I couldn't go wrong buying a new bike from them. As far as that goes, I was right – they serviced the bike correctly, and didn't pull any stunts. But the bike kept breaking clutch cables. The second time it happened, of course I bought two, so I had a spare. After a while Triumph put out a recall because of an issue with breaking clutch cables! That was sorted out correctly by the dealer, but these breakages had cost me time at work and quite a few hours stuck by the side of the road waiting for recovery. I also reasoned that, in 2000 – 2001, as the first owner of a bike that was getting serviced by the Triumph main dealer who had sold it to me, per the manufacturer's specifications, including mileages, I should not have to carry a spare clutch cable. So I wrote directly to Triumph, asking for a refund on the spare cable I'd bought – other people might have asked for more. Triumph graciously complied. Next thing I know, I'm getting verbal from the boss's son saying how dare I ask Triumph for a refund, because I'd bought that cable as a spare! You can imagine how circular that guy's argument seemed to me. Plus, this was entirely between me and Triumph, and had nothing to do with this idiot! So, it's not just dealers in old bikes ... Really, that was when I decided that, in my opinion, Carl Rosner and especially his son Robert were smug b*st*rds who really didn't give much of a toss about their customers.

Back in 72 I purchased a new XS2 650 Yamaha. I noticed a odd squeak in the front brake and when I took it back for its 500 mile service they said it was a recall item but they were waiting on the parts. They decided to put off my 500 mile service until they got the parts which were due in the next week. Every time I called they said it was on back order and after several weeks I wrote Yamaha. Now by this time I had over 1200 miles on the bike and still no 500 mile service. Well I got a call from the dealer saying the part was in but they were very mad that I contacted Yamaha because it put a "Red Letter" in their file. Got the rotor bearings replaced and my 500 mile service done and never went back. The dealer went out of business not that long after.

John in Texas

Oh yes there were some rude characters at Rosners.

Triton Thrasher said:

Oh yes there were some rude characters at Rosners.

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Since I'm not alone in this, I might add that, over the four or five years that I'd go in there for parts for the Commando, and latterly also for servicing the Triumph, there always seemed to be a condescending manner from behind the counter in all my purchases. Like, 'What does this guy want now?' As though they were waiting for a real customer ... I'd stress that I didn't get this from the guys in the workshop. But hence my use of the word 'smug'.

Torontonian said:

If that's the case then start naming the names.

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Maybe we're a bit more lucky up here, as there are fewer primary sources for brit bike parts (bad reputations resonate more in smaller communities?). Anyway, we all know the main players:

BritCycle - always helpful, top notch phone service, quality parts (and they tell you whether it's a genuine or taiwanese part), and quick delivery

Walridge - Mike is pretty good at responding to enquiries, but don't waste his time asking for part #'s etc..., good knowledge, but be sure to enquire as to whether the part is NOS, genuine etc...

Northern Eagle (triumph only) - Dennis is great, will help you get what you need (though all his prices are in US dollars?), and is very knowledgeable when it comes to unit triumphs

Flying Squirrel (Modern/non brit vintage) - Glen is a great resource for this stuff, can get almost anything, knows a ton, and has decent prices (I prefer to support the local guys, especially if they're good, over saving a few bucks online)

I have been sued by a company that I mentioned on a site like this a few years ago so don't think you are somehow "protected" because it's your right to "free speech." In the US (can't speak for other countries) You are NOT protected, even if you can provide plenty of evidence to prove you are presenting factual information. "Free speech" does not apply to writing. It seems you can verbally say just about anything you want to with little fear but put it in writing is a different deal altogether and a post on an internet site is "in writing." .

So don't sensd me a PM asking about it, I won't get Back to you because I don't want to Stir up any trouble.

Mike, are you talking about Mexico it being permissible to be sued to mad mouthing a company in writing on the internet, or the USA?

USA. You can do just about anything in Mexico - it's basically the US 50 years ago.