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Avon tyres... bummer...

Discussion in 'Norton Commando Motorcycles (Classic)' started by Fast Eddie, Jan 13, 2020.

  1. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Buy, or don’t buy, what you like Ken!
    If it were only my Commando I was interested in, it wouldn’t be such a challenge.
    We were talking %... as Ludwig mentioned, you’d have got AT LEAST 7,500 miles out of a rear tyre instead of 5,000 from your universal.
    Track time kinda scrubs the rubber from a tyre rather than wear it per se, so tyre ‘wear’ is disproportionately higher with such use.
    Low mileage tyres also mean one ends up changing an otherwise perfectly good tyre before going on a European trek for example as it won’t last the entire trip, and finding / changing one enroute is an unwelcome PITA.
    The beauty of Roadriders was they were a proper all round tyre and I could have the same on all my bikes.
    Maybe the solution for me is race tyres for the Commando and either BT45s or Metzelers for the rest of the shed.
    So, it’s not only about me and my Commando, I’ve got a bunch of mates going through the same quandary right now as we’d all settled on Roadriders as our ‘standard’ tyres, but this change by Avon, whilst not the end of the world, has prompted us to look for alternatives.
    And it turns out there are some!
    One is about to fit the Metzelers to his T140.
     
  2. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Funny really, when I first discovered that Avon had discontinued ‘my’ tyre, I was pissed off.

    That’s becasue I don’t think I’ve bought anything other than Avon (for my old bikes) for at least 20 years, road and race. I like them, like the handling, and saw no reason to change.

    So a bit like ‘Rain Man’ ... the change made me uncomfortable!

    But now Avon have forced me to take my head out of the sand, and I see alternative tyres that I’m now quite interested in trying out.

    Funny old game innit ?!?
     
  3. Madnorton

    Madnorton

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Contact them and ask, the literature is not that comprehensive at the moment. It is frustrating when they miss critical bits out.
    If seems that they rush the products to market and bits fall through the cracks when doing so, and don't speak to those who could help them. Just like the fact they did not mention that the 100/90-19 MK2 universal will fit a WM2, when emailed, they confirmed it would fit. It seems that they are not interested in tens of thousands of bikes with WM2 rims, but are OK to feel they they can actively advertise their tie in with the 961 regarding tyres.

    Ten years ago the Roadrider was tyre number 1, but now the others have caught up or catching up. Good idea to look around.

    Strange world.
     
  4. gortnipper

    gortnipper VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Keep us posted if you try the Metzelers, I used to run a ME33 on the commando and liked them o other bikes too.
     
  5. Fullauto

    Fullauto VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    It is a strange world. People are using Roadriders on rims that are not suitable for the rim sizes. Just because Avon are now saying that they are suitable for the 1.85 inch rim of the Commando, doesn't mean that they are the best choice. I have been through over twenty of these tyres since I first started using them, on both size rims, being the standard 1.85 inch rim, and the 2.5 inch rim that they are made for and there is a world of difference between the two. Quick steering yet stable, and the worst characteristics disappear or are much lessened when you use the wider rim.
     
    Fast Eddie likes this.
  6. kommando

    kommando

    Joined:
    May 7, 2005
    If you ask nicely Avon will send you a PDF with the full range for the RR MkII, or PM me your email addy and I can send my copy.
     
  7. Matchless

    Matchless

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    I am also annoyed to find out that Avon might no longer be making the 4.00 x 18 RR, as I fitted a 18" rim to the back of the 920 especially to accommodate them. The reason behind the change was 7.5mm tread depth for better milage. God only knows how anyone can get 5000 miles out of the universal 100/90/19" as I used to get 2000 if I was lucky.
    All of my bikes,my car, & my wifes car are fitted with Avons, but if the don't make what I need I might be tempted to change allegiance. The problem is the expense of trying different makes only to find that the bike doesn't handle with them. I tried a pair of Michelin's & the bike started to weave at anything over 70mph. The other problem with different makes of 4.00 x 18 is some are much wider than others & may not fit.

    Martyn.
     
    Fast Eddie likes this.
  8. Fullauto

    Fullauto VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Well, wouldn't that be strange if all the people who put 18 inch rims on the rear found they couldn't get suitable rubber?
     
  9. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Well stone the crows. Kommando sent me the pdf (thanks again) and waddya know... the 4.00-18 rear, with full 7.5mm tread depth, is listed!

    Panic over.

    2FC053C2-A986-40D7-AC5A-BB1108C8AC91.png
     
  10. worntorn

    worntorn

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    The 4.00 x 18 Roadrider is a very good tire, and quite big overall, much wider than 4" you would expect with a 4.00 tire.
    It also has a higher load rating than the 110/18 Roadrider, (64vs 61) which is handy for two up use.
    We use all of the load rating!
    I switched out stock narrow 19 and 20" rims for wider 18 and 19" rims on the high mileage Vincent. We've used up quite a few of these 400/18s, averaging 6500-7000 miles, two up & luggage.

    I see in the specs above width is 4.6 and load rating is also higher than the 120/18.

    With the old rims I tried a 100/90/19 Universal Roadrider on the rear but it was really overloaded (57v ). It didn't last long which may have been just as well. The short tire life and known overload problem pushed me into the rim change.



    Glen
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  11. Matchless

    Matchless

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Hoorah !! (very loudly)
     
    Fast Eddie likes this.
  12. Time Warp

    Time Warp .......back to the 70's. VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    Something to be said for 17's maybe.
    Lots of Commando content in my latest Classic Bike and Classic Bike Guide.

    920.jpg
     
  13. Matchless

    Matchless

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    That bike has modern steering geometry so is more suited to modern wheel & tyre sizes. It only resembles a Commando. Having said that, Norman White did once tell me that the best handling Commando he ever rode had 18" wheels with Metzler tyres.
     
  14. Time Warp

    Time Warp .......back to the 70's. VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    I had given that some thought when the professional wheel builder dimpled and drilled 18 inch rims when I ordered 19's but have to say the bike has a nice stance with the replacement 2.5" 19's and Classic Attacks.
    They seem to have great traction on the tile floor in the house.
    On the road will be another thing.
    You could probably have any front end set up if it has around 4 inches of trail. (imho)
     
  15. Matchless

    Matchless

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    The best handling bike I have ever ridden is my Buell Firebolt. 21deg. headstock, 3.7" of trail, 52" wheelbase & 17" wheels, which all sounds like a recipe for an unstable bike that is about to tank slap/wheelie without notice.
    Please keep us posted on the Classic Attacks.
     
  16. Staytite

    Staytite

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2011
    For Ludwig's data base:
    I've just removed a very old Avon AM20 Roadrunner 90/90/19" from an old front wheel
    It has about 2mm tread and weighs 5.00Kg with inner tube and rim tape that makes it 5.40Kg
     
  17. Rosey

    Rosey

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2011
    I'm using Pirelli Sport Demon 100/90 on the front and 110/90 on the rear,both on 18"- 2.15 rims ,great tyre,handles well.Don't know about long term wear as they have not been on for long .But a very confidence inspiring tyre,my Guzzis love them.Brett
     
  18. dobba99

    dobba99

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2014
    Eddie/Martyn
    Don't jump up and down too soon. I think the listing Kommando posted is out of date. Going on the Avon tyre companys web site the 4.00 -18 roadrider isn't listed anymore. I know it was there few months ago as i,m wanting a rear hub lacing to an 18" rim and am undecided on what rim width to go for. I have a new 4.00-18 Roadrider to fit to said rim once i get the wheel built, and am wondering what tyre i can use after that one wears out.
    Measuring the swinging arm a 120/90-18 Roadrider would just fit at approx 125mm width on a 2.5" WM4 rim
    Has anyone fitted a tyre this wide to a commando? or put another way what is the widest tyre/rim combo that will fit the rear?
     
  19. gortnipper

    gortnipper VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    I have a 4.00-18 Roadrider on a WM3, and there is plenty of room.

    Edit to correct tire.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
  20. kommando

    kommando

    Joined:
    May 7, 2005
    The pdf was only sent to me a few weeks ago, use the online contact form on the Avon site, they answer within 48 hours. Migrating between 2 ranges is going to take time and they don't get to make the full new range immediately.
     

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