Anyone Running Hayward Belts Dry and Sealed?

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bpatton

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I remember a post in a belt thread a while back in which someone said they were running their urethane Hayward belt dry and sealed. I want to do that but I'm not in the pioneering mood. I have been running my Hayward sealed in ATF and it's time to get a new clutch. It's going to be a Surflex and I'd like to run it dry and sealed.

Thanks,
 
Interesting. I was not aware of any recommendations to put any type of oil in the primary while running a belt drive there.
I have had a Norvil belt primary for ten years, completely dry and sealed with the primary inspection covers in place.

The only reason I can think of to have any fluid in there is to slop around the alternator rotor area to what, aid cooling?

Don't know why a very hot primary with very hot oil in it would remove heat from the rotor, hot is hot, and what exactly is harmful about a "hot' alternator?

Maybe some belts specify a slopping oil lube in the primary, mine did not, and I love it not leaking, and with a non oil foiled dry clutch.
 
bpatton said:
I remember a post in a belt thread a while back in which someone said they were running their urethane Hayward belt dry and sealed. I want to do that but I'm not in the pioneering mood. I have been running my Hayward sealed in ATF and it's time to get a new clutch. It's going to be a Surflex and I'd like to run it dry and sealed.

Thanks,
Click to expand...

Why did you put ATF in there?
 
A belt running in ATF? I've never heard of that, I was taught that when you had any leaks in a belt area you sealed them to prevent failure. I would not have though that a belt would run in ATF without slippage, new one on me. Of course the belts I have dealt with are cam and car drive belts.
 
I would guess the atf is primarily for the clutch hub bearing. The belt drive kits must have a special sealed bearing. This is a high speed, high torque, high load application for any bearing so I'm not sure how this is addressed.
 
RennieK said:
I would guess the atf is primarily for the clutch hub bearing. The belt drive kits must have a special sealed bearing. This is a high speed, high torque, high load application for any bearing so I'm not sure how this is addressed.
Click to expand...

actually the bearing is only in play is when the clutch is disengaged so it has VERY little load.as to speed it is just the diffrence in inner and outer hub's. otherwise all it does it keep the inner and outer hubs centered with each other.
 
Sealed would be better but I'd think wheel bearing grease would stay there for the average life of a clutch.
 
From what I've seen hayward's are made to run wet or dry. Haven't seen any in person, but from pics it looks much higher quality than the average belt drive
 
Hi

I run a Hayward beltdrive on my commando, I di drun it in ATF at the beginning which I think will help transfer the heat generated in the belt to the cover which then will cool the oil.
But when changing the belt 2 years ago I called Tony Hayward and he assured it can be run dry without any venting holes and I have now done that the last 2 seasons without any problems.

Best Regards
Henrik
 
swooshdave said:
bpatton said:
I remember a post in a belt thread a while back in which someone said they were running their urethane Hayward belt dry and sealed. I want to do that but I'm not in the pioneering mood. I have been running my Hayward sealed in ATF and it's time to get a new clutch. It's going to be a Surflex and I'd like to run it dry and sealed.

Thanks,
Click to expand...

Why did you put ATF in there?
Click to expand...

When I was getting ready to buy the belt I called Tony about running it dry or wet and he said that the belt would be fine in ATF. My motivation was better heat transfer to the case for the belt and the alternator by way of the ATF flying around. I've since come to the belief that heat getting pulled over from the engine case to the primary case probably trumps anything getting generated by the alternator and the belt, and the primary case is a lot of aluminum surface area to shed heat. I don't like the idea much of having belt and clutch open. I want to go up to Alaska this spring and bikes get covered with a mud that is basically pumice. Everything that can wearout will need replacing. Never buy a bike that's been to Alaska. :D
Hayward kits use a urethane belt, which differs from neoprene in that it can be run wet or dry. There are new generation syncroflex belts that are supposed to be better than what I've been using, which were pretty good. The new ones may make the temperature issues moot.
 
Lucky said:
Hi

I run a Hayward beltdrive on my commando, I di drun it in ATF at the beginning which I think will help transfer the heat generated in the belt to the cover which then will cool the oil.
But when changing the belt 2 years ago I called Tony Hayward and he assured it can be run dry without any venting holes and I have now done that the last 2 seasons without any problems.

Best Regards
Henrik
Click to expand...

Henrik, Thank You. I was writing my post when yours was sent. Did Tony mention if the belt you bought was a Gen III version of the belt. The timing would be about right and they are supposedly pretty much bullet-proof.
 
Hi

As far as I remember I asked the question and I think I rememer there was a print on the belt stating it as a gen III.
 
I've run an early RGM belt drive on my commando for probably 70000 miles, no oil and totally sealed (no vents) (except when it came through the crank seal) and totally sealed (no vents) and its been fine, replaced the clutch bearing recently but only because I was bored. had 3 belts in that time, only one needed replaced due to damage after the Gearbox mainshaft bearing let go. I'm sure these were Hayward drives RGM sold then as well not his own.
 
Ahh dear Tony

Probably not a great known fact but RGM suplied Tony with Norton spares to sell & Tony Supplies RGM with?

I run Tonys belt drive on my race Daytona, Race Rickman Trident & a road Triton. RGM on my Road Seeley MK3 Commando.
Bob Newbys clutches on Race Daytona, Race Commando, Race Rickman 8 valve.
My Race Seeley Commando MK4 runs a Fairspares With Steve Maney center (Norvils was oversize)
Also NEB on a race Rickman Commando. Different plates but all good.
ps I hate the use of standard Triumph springs cups Thrust washer rollers etc on the Hayward Triumph system Bob Newbys does away with all this & you can adjust the springs with your fingers. (Jawa clutch parts)
If your triplexchain clutch etc is good leave it alone once it needs replacing go to a belt!
all the best Chris
 
bill said:
RennieK said:
I would guess the atf is primarily for the clutch hub bearing. The belt drive kits must have a special sealed bearing. This is a high speed, high torque, high load application for any bearing so I'm not sure how this is addressed.
Click to expand...

actually the bearing is only in play is when the clutch is disengaged so it has VERY little load.as to speed it is just the difference in inner and outer hub's. otherwise all it does it keep the inner and outer hubs centered with each other.
Click to expand...

While it's true the bearing only spins when the clutch is disengaged, there is enough whip in the shafts that's it's definitely under load, just not rotating load pretty much whenever you twist the throttle hard. The reason for any lubricant in the primary case is for the clutch plates. The race guys who run dry clutches run the risk of smoking them if they slip them too much to get going, it's really easy to do. ATF or whatever is NOT just to transfer heat from the primary to the cases which act as a radiator, it's for your "wet type" clutch, meaning the plates. Yes you can run the clutch plates dry, just be careful. I'm using Harley "Big Twin" primary oil, for my clutch.
Stevan Thomas
World's Straightest Commando

PS: be glad you don't have a round case Ducati, the same oil does the gearbox, clutch and engine, with an oil filtration system designed for oil changes every race! You can add a filter, but it's a complete and expensive tear down. The separate oil supply for all three is very civilized.
 
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