Anti-Janky-fying my 1974 Norton Commando

As previously introduced, I won a '74 Commando (I see I typed 72 for some reason) on Iconic Auctions back in January for some damn reason. I don't have enough to do, apparently.

The seller was Mike Seate, publisher of Cafe Racer Magazine, where the bike was a project bike. It has some nice stuff on it, best bit being an Alton electric start, which I have managed to screw up while it's been in my possession. I spoke with Mike over the phone while arranging transportation and he assured me that I would be "really happy with the bike". I think he intended to say I would be "really happy with the bike if you like fixing a lot of janky sh*t". Maybe we had a bad phone connection.

So, life has been hectic but I finally cleared my lift and put the Norton on it. And this is what it looks like (strategic picture angle to make garage look as uncluttered as possible).



Off to pick out tile for my daughter's bathroom. Living the dream folks.

I’d also like to hear about your Ducati track bike- I’ve just finished uncrashifying my 09 848

Janky or Not, that's a good looking ride.
Should bring some joy when sorted.
Interesting looking rear brake linkage.

mfennell said:

As previously introduced, I won a '74 Commando (I see I typed 72 for some reason) on Iconic Auctions back in January for some damn reason. I don't have enough to do, apparently.

The seller was Mike Seate, publisher of Cafe Racer Magazine, where the bike was a project bike. It has some nice stuff on it, best bit being an Alton electric start, which I have managed to screw up while it's been in my possession. I spoke with Mike over the phone while arranging transportation and he assured me that I would be "really happy with the bike". I think he intended to say I would be "really happy with the bike if you like fixing a lot of janky sh*t". Maybe we had a bad phone connection.

So, life has been hectic but I finally cleared my lift and put the Norton on it. And this is what it looks like (strategic picture angle to make garage look as uncluttered as possible).

Off to pick out tile for my daughter's bathroom. Living the dream folks.

Click to expand...

Elfix said:

I’d also like to hear about your Ducati track bike- I’ve just finished uncrashifying my 09 848

Click to expand...

Nice. How crashified was it?

My bike has an interesting history. It's an '09 that was bought to race. Still on an MSO - never titled.

I also have an '11 848 that I tracked for several years. A couple years ago, I ordered some used track bodywork to make it track-only. About a week later, that bike showed up 45 minutes away with a TON of spares. So I bought it. It was originally owned by Dennis Espinosa. Dennis was racing at NJMP one Saturday and held a yard sale with his 848. I guess Ducati had some demo bikes there so he bought one, worked all night moving the less-bent parts from his race bike over, and raced it the next day. He raced it at Daytona the following spring but retired with a mechanical.

I bought an Aprilia Cup bike a month later so I could have street/track Aprilia RS250s and ended up rebuilding it completely so it took me two seasons to go over the 848 and swap over the suspension from my other bike. It has all the junk to make it still not as good as an R6. 30mm offset triple, Kyle linear link, TTX shock, Ohlins cartridges, etc. It came with a 6" forged Marchesini in the back which, sadly, I had to swap out because you can't get Pirelli slicks that fit and why the hell do I need a 6" rear wheel with 125rwhp?

I should really just go buy an R6 or Triumph but I have so much 848 junk.

MichaelB said:

Janky or Not, that's a good looking ride.
Should bring some joy when sorted.
Interesting looking rear brake linkage.

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Hahah. "Stupid" is the word you're looking for but I guess interesting is more polite. Or at least "poorly implemented". My initial thought was that I hated the idea that suspension articulation would affect the brake but I guess a solid linkage to a drum brake has been done before.

The problem here is that the misalignment between the clevis and brake pedal is so bad that the pedal is bound up and will not return. With the bolt out, I had to smack it with a dead blow to separate them!



I'm not sure if the best plan is to fix the alignment or see if a cable can work with the big offset between the pedal and the cable bracket. Maybe if I add a standoff to the bracket? Speaking of standoffs, the toe peg on the brake pedal is actually a threaded hex standoff. Maybe it's an edgy Cafe bike thing.

A female rod-end on your rod and fit to the backside of this lever arm would tolerate the misalignment and free it up. UnJank#1

So, nearly 32oz of oil came out of the primary case. My trusty Clymer says 7oz is correct. Oops. I'll just assume it was OK when I got it and I screwed up by starting it after the oil drained down because that will annoy me slightly less. So the poor bike is also suffering from DNO (Dumb New Owner) problems. I knew all about the sump issue. My friend even suffered from it a few months ago - which means I know he has the tools for me to borrow.



Anyway, I confirmed that the sheer plugs are the problem with the starter. There was more glitter in the oil that I would have liked to see but I have no idea what normal should look like.

@Holmeslice . Perfect! Yes, that's exactly what I need.

mfennell said:

So, nearly 32oz of oil came out of the primary case. My trusty Clymer says 7oz is correct. Oops. I'll just assume it was OK when I got it and I screwed up by starting it after the oil drained down because that will annoy me slightly less. So the poor bike is also suffering from DNO (Dumb New Owner) problems. I knew all about the sump issue. My friend even suffered from it a few months ago - which means I know he has the tools for me to borrow.

Anyway, I confirmed that the sheer plugs are the problem with the starter. There was more glitter in the oil that I would have liked to see but I have no idea what normal should look like.

@Holmeslice . Perfect! Yes, that's exactly what I need.

Click to expand...

Primary drive chain too slack = glitter in the oil as the chain will rub on the case. You might want to modifiy the altons stator to fit it with flexible wire leads as the original solid wire leads break with the vibration of the engine.

mfennell said:

So, nearly 32oz of oil came out of the primary case. My trusty Clymer says 7oz is correct. Oops. I'll just assume it was OK when I got it and I screwed up by starting it after the oil drained down because that will annoy me slightly less. So the poor bike is also suffering from DNO (Dumb New Owner) problems. I knew all about the sump issue. My friend even suffered from it a few months ago - which means I know he has the tools for me to borrow.

Anyway, I confirmed that the sheer plugs are the problem with the starter. There was more glitter in the oil that I would have liked to see but I have no idea what normal should look like.

@Holmeslice . Perfect! Yes, that's exactly what I need.

Click to expand...

You also might want to inspect the alton stator and rotor as you can see where the magnets are in the rotor. That could be iron metal debris stuck to the magnets.

32 ounces of oil might mean your engine oil is going past the left crankshaft seal into the primary chain case. I don't think there is enough oil in the gearbox to cause this much of a rise.
I have an Alton and know it well so if you need any help do tell me
Dennis

Yes , replace the engine drive side seal .
Does this machine have a reed breather to stop leakages ?

It looks like your primary chain could be too slack and I suspect that the top chain run may have been bouncing down against the Alton inner case metal that holds the large Alton allen bolt. You will see track marks caused by the chain if this has happened and would explain the silver particles in the crankcase oil.

I had this problem and even when I tightened the chain properly, it still happened. Turned out that my primary chain had uneven wear so a new chain fixed that.

If you decide to pull the chain case innards to replace the crank seal, contact me as I replaced my seal when I installed my Alton.
I can walk you through the process and tell you what tools are needed. To avoid damaging one of the Alton bushes, it is key to NOT undo the Alton Stator support bracket until the Alton nut has been loosened. Also very important to install the Alton stator support bracket before tightening the Alton nut.

Dennis

You said the shear plugs are sheared. I have been there!

There are usually two possible kickback causes - assuming your ignition spark is timed properly at 28 BTDC above 3500 rpm (or when you hit maximum advance)

1) Your ignition system (if electronic) is no pre-programmed to time the spark at ATDC at less than 500 rpm. Older electronics seem to not do this

2) Your ignition system (if electronic) loses its timing accuracy at low voltage and can spark at BTDC at under 500 rpm. Again, some older systems suffer from this

What happened to cause the dowel shearing?

Alton used to recommend putting in three dowels (of 6 possible positions), and I read recently somewhere that they now recommend 5 dowels to start.

I bought a TriSpark electronic Ignition to replace the Boyer that came with my bike and it is very good. No problems. In fact without touching my carb my idle was better and cold starts gave an idle that did not stall like before

When Trispark is timed at 28 BTDC maximum advance, I think it sparks roughly 7 degrees ATDC below 500 rpm. I did ask TriSpark for the advance curve of the unit and made that calculation.

Do tell me if I can help!

Dennis

You are missing the lock washer under the Alton rotor nut as in photo below. If you do order some Alton dowels, contact me as there are others things I suggest you order like spare allen bolts for the two small ones that hold the stator steady plate to the Alton inner chain case. If someone installed this two with loctite and you don't firmly snap them loose with a very hard allen key/bit, you can strip the allen female recess in them. Worse case would be if someone installs them with red loctite. If they have done that you won't get them loose and will strip the bolt. Instead you will need to heat the allen bolt but making sure you have a piece of sheet metal to shield the lower left stator/rotor from the heat.
I haven't made a list but I would put a spare alton woodruff key on the list. You may find that yours has been imprinted (slightly distorted) by the torque of the backfire and needs to be replaced
Dennis

Damage to my 848 was minimal considering it was a 100mph low side. Mine is also an 09 and has most of the same modifications as yours- I’ve been competing on it for 10 seasons now.

Ironically I also have an RS250 cup bike- one of the very early examples that still has the chopped up wiring harness and the vin on the headstock destroyed.

I’ll leave it at that, given this is suppose to be a Norton forum.