961 is back !

There’s a difference between a stress crack due to a design fault and a wasn’t welded right manufacturing error crack.
 
Can anybody remember any instance of any frame cracking, in any location, of any type?

Not wishing to ‘flog a dead horse’, but if this is possible/probable then that information would be pretty useful. With more detail we could at the very least add it to our pre-ride checklist.

’….. near the steering head..……they discovered that there was a chance of cracking’ - is pretty spurious. I’m guessing that this may just be a Birmingham Norton tactic in trying to highlight (read exaggerate) the significance of some of the technical changes made. The greater technical distance between new and old the better for sales of course.
 
They weren’t afraid to issue a don’t ride notice for the V4 so if it were safety critical they would presumably have done so for the 961 as well.
 
Voodooo said:
How many frames cracked that we know of? One?
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I recall reading in an article that when SG acquired the rights to Norton he was a partner with a gent who was a respected frame builder. Anyone able to elucidate on that? As I recall this fellow lost alot due to SG and sued him.

The former business partner.
Stuart Tiller is a 74 year-old engineer and one of the founding two members of Spondon Engineering. Spondon had a legendary reputation for fabricating some of the very best motorcycle chassis on the planet, they started back in the late sixties and were the kind of business that didn’t need to advertise, the quality of their work did all the talking for them. Stuart Tiller knew the Garner family well. Tiller met Stuart Garner when he was a gamekeeper, they would eventually became business parters.
Did Tiller have anything to do with the 961 frame design?
 
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Boss302 said:
I recall reading in an article that when SG acquired the rights to Norton he was a partner with a gent who was a respected frame builder. Anyone able to elucidate on that? As I recall this fellow lost alot due to SG and sued him.

The former business partner.
Stuart Tiller is a 74 year-old engineer and one of the founding two members of Spondon Engineering. Spondon had a legendary reputation for fabricating some of the very best motorcycle chassis on the planet, they started back in the late sixties and were the kind of business that didn’t need to advertise, the quality of their work did all the talking for them. Stuart Tiller knew the Garner family well. Tiller met Stuart Garner when he was a gamekeeper, they would eventually became business parters.
Did Tiller have anything to do with the 961 frame design?
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I remember this story, but who actually made our frames and of what material?
 
Voodooo said:
I remember this story, but who actually made our frames and of what material?
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I found this from member ICRKEN in 2021. Is he still around?
Nice bike & good price. I might be able to offer some clarification on a few issues. First, the frames for these bikes is the same as the prototypes that came from here in Oregon-Norton America. Kenny Dreer worked with Jeff Cole of the famous C&J frames to create these, Jeff is now retired but still does small batches of frames for all kinds of bikes, Of note, He has made a number of custom frames for Matt @ CNW but I have spoke to Jeff and while I have several prototype Nortons and the original CAD files, new frames are not inexpensive. I have spoke to many of the Norton UK vendors and many are operating on rev1 CAD prints so, the claim that Stuart Garner made of revamping the entire bikes is not entirely true.
For clarification, When Garner bought Norton from Norton America the chassis was 100% production, Shovel ready. The motor was at 90% and while they knew what it needed, lacked the funds to go into production, Hence the venture capitalist who funded Norton Americas decision to sell. Garner employed a well known midlands company to refine the motors and build all the early ones. Based on this bikes date, This bike SHOULD have one of those motors. However there was a dispute over funds and eventually that company severed ties with Garner/Norton. When they had them built by a new vendor and some inhouse, they had some issues. All of which if you search on the net you can read about. I have several of these early motors and they are excellent.
As to Spondon, thats a different topic, and post liquidation seems there was some issues with the purchase of Spondon and its assets. Again well chronicled on many sites, including AccessNorton. If true, & the reports are credible, Its an unfortunate outcome for what was once a reputable company.
 
unfortunate is an understatement. it was covered previously as to how SG got the money to buy the Norton name etc, and it wasn’t pretty.......
 
Boss302 said:
I found this from member ICRKEN in 2021. Is he still around?
Nice bike & good price. I might be able to offer some clarification on a few issues. First, the frames for these bikes is the same as the prototypes that came from here in Oregon-Norton America. Kenny Dreer worked with Jeff Cole of the famous C&J frames to create these, Jeff is now retired but still does small batches of frames for all kinds of bikes, Of note, He has made a number of custom frames for Matt @ CNW but I have spoke to Jeff and while I have several prototype Nortons and the original CAD files, new frames are not inexpensive. I have spoke to many of the Norton UK vendors and many are operating on rev1 CAD prints so, the claim that Stuart Garner made of revamping the entire bikes is not entirely true.
For clarification, When Garner bought Norton from Norton America the chassis was 100% production, Shovel ready. The motor was at 90% and while they knew what it needed, lacked the funds to go into production, Hence the venture capitalist who funded Norton Americas decision to sell. Garner employed a well known midlands company to refine the motors and build all the early ones. Based on this bikes date, This bike SHOULD have one of those motors. However there was a dispute over funds and eventually that company severed ties with Garner/Norton. When they had them built by a new vendor and some inhouse, they had some issues. All of which if you search on the net you can read about. I have several of these early motors and they are excellent.
As to Spondon, thats a different topic, and post liquidation seems there was some issues with the purchase of Spondon and its assets. Again well chronicled on many sites, including AccessNorton. If true, & the reports are credible, Its an unfortunate outcome for what was once a reputable company.
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I'm still around, Boss302. But let me point out that I'm not the one who wrote the text above. It was written by Doug Towsley, and all I did was post it for the information it contains.

Ken
 
lcrken said:
I'm still around, Boss302. But let me point out that I'm not the one who wrote the text above. It was written by Doug Towsley, and all I did was post it for the information it contains.

Ken
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Gotcha. I thought I'd give you credit though.
 
Many will have read this previously, but a lot of detail between SG / Spondon is covered in this interview of Stuart Tiller, who was the "other half" of Spondon along with Bob Stevenson.

www.superbike.co.uk

Norton Motorcycles – was it a fraud from the start? Part one | SuperBike Magazine

You’re about to read the first in a series of interviews relating to the Norton story. The story is not a good one for the UK motorcycle industry.
www.superbike.co.uk www.superbike.co.uk
 
A FB forum members experience of test riding a Birmingham Norton 961. As you’d expect, similar but better (in simplistic terms). My favourite sort of news - ‘good’ 😁

961 is back !
 
OK for starters.
Who will Norton give a bike to for a long-term test?
1,000 or 2,000 miles test.
Let's see if anything comes loose, falls off, needs replacement, or requires major work.
Only then will we know if the thing is fixed or not.
 
This is true. If you read any of the 961 road tests / reviews from early days on until the bitter end there is no indication of the problems owners would encounter. Real world of ownership is often quite different from a 25 mile one time test romp with big smiles and happy talk.
It was just as bad back in the 50s 60s 70s with the magazine tests done then.
All bikes tested had " an utter absence of vibration at any speed" and were capable of impossible speeds.
In reality most struggled to hit the ton and shook like crazy all the way there.
 
ntst8 said:
They weren’t afraid to issue a don’t ride notice for the V4 so if it were safety critical they would presumably have done so for the 961 as well.
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That's very accurate. Even a hey this is what we found memo or something regard the Pre-Sol Nortons. If they knew something about them that was that dangerous and didn't say anything....
 
worntorn said:
This is true. If you read any of the 961 road tests / reviews from early days on until the bitter end there is no indication of the problems owners would encounter. Real world of ownership is often quite different from a 25 mile one time test romp with big smiles and happy talk.
It was just as bad back in the 50s 60s 70s with the magazine tests done then.
All bikes tested had " an utter absence of vibration at any speed" and were capable of impossible speeds.
In reality most struggled to hit the ton and shook like crazy all the way there.
Click to expand...
Those were the bad old days for sure.
Magazines were paid off with by the companies with mult-page advertisements.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
A FB forum members experience of test riding a Birmingham Norton 961. As you’d expect, similar but better (in simplistic terms). My favourite sort of news - ‘good’ 😁

View attachment 100928
Click to expand...
How do you compare a new bike to one with 13000 miles?

I’m still saying placebo effect.

Until we see inside of one, and learn first hand of the real changes, I’ll stay skeptical.
 
BritTwit said:
Those were the bad old days for sure.
Magazines were paid off with by the companies with mult-page advertisements.
Click to expand...
Things never change.
Today is the same way.
Don’t think for a second that a YouTube person isn’t getting some money or recognition for riding brand new bikes and cars.
 
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