961 Erratic take off in first gear like I'm a learner - help please

Bakepl

Bakepl

Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Messages
29
Country flag
20000klm 2015 961. When taking off from standstill bike has developed very poor 1st gear clutch control. Progressively let the clutch out and when you expect it to slip and take off with a little throttle - nothing, let it out a little more with a few revs and clutch engages severely. (like a learner for the first time hopping with a manual car) On occasions behaves like any other clutch but not often. Changing through other gears is fine. I dread being stopped at traffic lights and having to turn sharp left on take off - will it behave or send me jumping all over the place until I get moving? Any ideas of where to start looking (I'm hoping not the obvious - new clutch, as it works well other than taking off)
 
Bakepl said:
20000klm 2015 961. When taking off from standstill bike has developed very poor 1st gear clutch control. Progressively let the clutch out and when you expect it to slip and take off with a little throttle - nothing, let it out a little more with a few revs and clutch engages severely. (like a learner for the first time hopping with a manual car) On occasions behaves like any other clutch but not often. Changing through other gears is fine. I dread being stopped at traffic lights and having to turn sharp left on take off - will it behave or send me jumping all over the place until I get moving? Any ideas of where to start looking (I'm hoping not the obvious - new clutch, as it works well other than taking off)
Click to expand...
It sounds like you have a problem with the clutch basket (centre nut loosened off, or rivets letting go) or the nut holding the front sprocket on is loose, as the lock washer is known to be weak. Better lockwashers are available from Thiel Motorsport in Germany.

Either way I would not ride the bike until you have looked at these points.

Keep us posted.
 
Stu Bodycote said:
I wouldn't ride it any further until you've investigated it. Remove the primary cover, and strip the primary side. Also, if the clutch basket is the later cast type, check the centre basket has its oil ways drilled in....as Ive seen a fair few now that I've had to drill.
Click to expand...
Cheers Stu and thanks for replying. I was about to give you a bell for your thoughts and will make a start. I see there are some tools mentioned here and there for this job. Are there ones you recommend I can't do without and need to purchase before I start. regards Paul
 
No worries dude.
There's a clutch basket holding tool, but apart from that you can do the rest with a aluminium or copper wedge for the gears, and a pick for the backlash. You'll need a good quality two bolt (m8) puller for the backlash gear. Early bikes the back lash gear can get really stuck on, later bikes they come off very easy.
Even if you find it to just be a loose centre basket nut, I wouldn't stop there....just do a full strip and inspect whilst you're there. Even if I'm just doing a simple shift mechanism adjustment, I still do a full strip down and inspect. Parts are hard to find and expensive, so it's worth investing time to ensure longevity.
 
Last edited:
Bakepl said:
Cheers Stu and thanks for replying. I was about to give you a bell for your thoughts and will make a start. I see there are some tools mentioned here and there for this job. Are there ones you recommend I can't do without and need to purchase before I start. regards Paul
Click to expand...
I had to do this job earlier this year and having never done it before, managed fine...with Stu & the wider forums assistance!

I documented it here : https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/is-this-normal-advice-please.38930/

Make a coffee and have a read through as there's a lot of pictures from page 2 onwards. Hopefully that'll help a bit in your task
 
Stu Bodycote said:
No worries dude.
There's a clutch basket holding tool, but apart from that you can do the rest with a aluminium or copper wedge for the gears, and a pick for the backlash. You'll need a good quality two bolt (m8) puller for the backlash gear. Early bikes the back lash gear can get really stuck on, later bikes they come off very easy.
Even if you find it to just be a loose centre basket nut, I wouldn't stop there....just do a full strip and inspect whilst you're there. Even if I'm just doing a simple shift mechanism adjustment, I still do a full strip down and inspect. Parts are hard to find and expensive, so it's worth investing time to ensure longevity.
Click to expand...
Thank you again and very much appreciated.. if I only lived near Stu..😀 somewhat concerned or at least like to have my head in the sand about the 'parts hard to find' .... do we know if the new norton parts are different and will not fit/will not sell to punters?
 
Bakepl said:
Thank you again and very much appreciated.. if I only lived near Stu..😀 somewhat concerned or at least like to have my head in the sand about the 'parts hard to find' .... do we know if the new norton parts are different and will not fit/will not sell to punters?
Click to expand...
I did a full tear down of a late 2022 engine, and yes everything will retro fit.
When I started working on 961s from home, I was put off going full time with it due to worry of finding parts. But after 3yrs, I'd always managed to find what I needed for customer bikes, and managed to build a couple of bikes for myself too. So August 2023 I went full time with it, and continue to find those elusive parts....it just takes time.
 
Yes thanks Stephen, a fantastic resource and followed the story with CNW closely. Was one of the reasons, manuals that is, together with this fantastic forum that I went ahead and purchased my bike some years back now.. Norton Aus were about to close here but I was somewhat confident help wasn't too far away via this forum. The bike was hardly rideable when I picked it up but within a short time following suggestions here had it sorted. I'm the second owner, the original had enough of it being in the then Norton dealer workshop and I guess they just kept putting original sensors etc on it and the various faults he had would re-appear. He wasn't a happy camper at all and traded for a Ducati. I had to laugh at the quality of the main 30amp fuse holder... I had read about it and yes it burnt out on me without blowing the fuse before I had a chance to change it out. I was close enough to push it home and was fairly confident I knew what the issue was - it's the only bike I've owned not to not get me home after 45 odd years of riding but it's still my favourite, bizarre eh. As owners we're very fortunate to have this resource for sure and can't thank members enough, particularly Stu - perhaps they could transport him out to the colony... 😉
 
Bakepl said:
Yes thanks Stephen, a fantastic resource and followed the story with CNW closely. Was one of the reasons, manuals that is, together with this fantastic forum that I went ahead and purchased my bike some years back now.. Norton Aus were about to close here but I was somewhat confident help wasn't too far away via this forum. The bike was hardly rideable when I picked it up but within a short time following suggestions here had it sorted. I'm the second owner, the original had enough of it being in the then Norton dealer workshop and I guess they just kept putting original sensors etc on it and the various faults he had would re-appear. He wasn't a happy camper at all and traded for a Ducati. I had to laugh at the quality of the main 30amp fuse holder... I had read about it and yes it burnt out on me without blowing the fuse before I had a chance to change it out. I was close enough to push it home and was fairly confident I knew what the issue was - it's the only bike I've owned not to not get me home after 45 odd years of riding but it's still my favourite, bizarre eh. As owners we're very fortunate to have this resource for sure and can't thank members enough, particularly Stu - perhaps they could transport him out to the colony... 😉
Click to expand...
Cloning Stu has been suggested before Paul, but apparently ‘there can be only one’!😟

We’re definitely on our own in Aus now, with Brisbane Motorcycles no longer supporting Norton owners. They sold me my CR back in 2017 and have serviced it annually without difficulty, until this years came due (Dec 24). No real explanation, just not working on Norton anymore.

They haven’t been a Norton dealer for years and as we know spares can be a little difficult, so not really surprising. They have never needed Norton specific spares for my bike - just generic servicing items. Not sure about other bikes though - they may have been more difficult to deal with. A recent change in service manager was the final nail in our coffin I think.

Yep, this forum and its tech savvy members are essential to we mob of misfits & malcontents spread across the globe! So: contribute where we can; post stuff that might be interesting; document repairs so others can benefit and post pics as we’re cruisin’ around the coast. Above all enjoy👍!
 
Last edited:
You may be able to find an old Britbike shop that would be willing to work on the 961.
Some of these folks are very resourceful, and most like the new Nortons, what with pushrods, and being air-cooled, and all.
 
BritTwit said:
You may be able to find an old Britbike shop that would be willing to work on the 961.
Some of these folks are very resourceful, and most like the new Nortons, what with pushrods, and being air-cooled, and all.
Click to expand...
Not sure I agree, many (most?) old bike shops will be wary of the array of sensors, and computer, and injectors, and etc… not to mention all those horrid metric fasteners…!
 
Fast Eddie said:
Not sure I agree, many (most?) old bike shops will be wary of the array of sensors, and computer, and injectors, and etc… not to mention all those horrid metric fasteners…!
Click to expand...
Maybe, but if you can't, or don't want to work on your 961 these folks are the best bet.
I know one that will work on modern Triumph twins with EFI.
The typical Honda/Yamaha/etc dealers won't touch a 961.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
Are you aware of the CNW 961 manuals (and 961 Workshop Manual) Paul?

Found here:

Colorado Norton Works 961 Norton Workshop Manuals - Part Categories Custom Norton Motorcycles

Colorado Norton Works ™ - Custom Norton Commando Rebuilds & Parts
coloradonortonworks.net coloradonortonworks.net

Or

www.accessnorton.com

Modern Norton

www.accessnorton.com www.accessnorton.com

Anybody still in touch with Richard Coote? Or know whether he has added to/amended any of the 961 manuals on the CNW site?
Click to expand...
I’m in contact with Richard Coote still , no further updates as far as I know , it was Richard & his Dad Dave that first raised the issue of the hooky, fake , copied,wanna be , counterfeit, u/s , imitation,underwhelming sensors back in 2016 , together with many other suggestions , take a butchers at the picture, think u can tell they knew what they were on about .
961 Erratic take off in first gear like I'm a learner - help please
 
BLIGHTYBRIT/SF said:
I’m in contact with Richard Coote still , no further updates as far as I know , it was Richard & his Dad Dave that first raised the issue of the hooky, fake , copied,wanna be , counterfeit, u/s , imitation,underwhelming sensors back in 2016 , together with many other suggestions , take a butchers at the picture, think u can tell they knew what they were on about .
Click to expand...
That’s good to hear Blighty; those manuals are really useful. I remember that picture, it’s pretty awesome. What was the accompanying comment ‘went into garage to take the tank off - got carried away’!

I’m happy to do most of the maintenance myself. If I get to deeper open engine surgery I may look to one of the local independents. Gonna service the old girl next week. A simple two-beer-task as we know!

Really great news from Stu above, given past angst around spares compatability/disclosure. As we suspected though, the vast majority (read virtually 100%?) of Solihull parts will fit/retrofit to Donny bikes - including engine internals. With many more 961’s in circulation and sales picking up via recent initiative's, spares circulation should be more assured into the future. Good news all round👍
 


Write your reply...
Back
Top