'74 Commando - New Owner Thread

[hobageeba]

Hi peeps,
As the title implies, I'm a happy new owner of a 74 Commando. It's the bike of my dreams and I'm beyond excited. I figured I'd join this forum and tap it's collective wisdom along the way as though I've only owned vintage bikes, my experience with British bikes are limited and this is certainly my first Norton. So anyway, about the bike...

It's previous life:
Wise or not, I bought a bike that was halfway across the country and just had it shipped (used a reputable company and it arrived safe and sound). The story goes: the previous owner purchased it in non-running condition. He got a Boyer electronic ignition for it and converted it to a single carb setup (Amal, correct bore/correctly jetted for the application, or so the PO claims). He bought a new wiring harness and started disassembling the wiring, but decided to basically hot-wire the electronic ignition in to see it would fire. It did, he rode it around for a bit, got through all the gears and everything seemed peachy. He didn't get far beyond that as he has a problem with his hip/leg and couldn't really kick start it. Fast forward a bit, he decides to sell it as he's moving and he can't really start it anyway (and project is neglected). Or so the story goes...

It's new life with me (so far):
Now that it's in my hands, I'd really like to wake her up and see that she runs before I dig into the rewiring. I'm a little concerned about trying to use the hot-wired wiring and so I guess that'd be my first question. He basically has it wired up as such:

lead from battery (-) -> inline fuse -> key ignition switch -> out of the ignition switch -> electronic ignition unit which hooks up to coils
lead from battery (+) -> ground

Super crude, but he claims it worked to fire the bike up and ride it. I have a 12v 7Ah Shorai (lithium) battery on hand so I hooked that up and got spark. Reinstalled the plugs and kicked it over for a couple minutes but didn't get it to fire up. I didn't really want to try more until I had confirmation that this wiring will actually work and furthermore, that it isn't harming anything. I also did some quick research on Shorai/lithium batteries on a Commando and there seems to be mixed opinions. I'm wondering if I should be trying this with a different, more to spec battery.

Finally, the oil level is next to nil so I'd like to fill it at least partway with something for now. I have Bel-Ray 4T EXL 20w-50 mineral oil on-hand. Should be OK?

Any thoughts/advice would be immensely appreciated! Further than my specific questions, if anyone has any wisdom to impart to someone that's totally green to owning/riding a Commando, I'd LOVE to hear it!

Side note: A fairly reputable Norton guy in the area once warned me that if you don't know what you're doing with a Commando, "it'll blow up on you". :shock: Said there's lots of little tidbits to know. One example he gave me was that before you kickstart, you should pull the clutch in and lightly kick through a couple times till you "feel the clutch plates break loose" or you'll damage the tranny...or something of the nature. So yeah, any tid bits like that would be great!

Thanks guys!

 

[hobageeba]

I forgot pictures! Not much to see that you all haven't seen a million times, but here it is. I'd already yanked the seat and tank before I'd even thought to take pictures of the bike, but I'll post pictures of it assembled soon. So anyway...

You can sorta see the hot-wire job here

 

[dero]

If you are planning on just topping up the oil , first check that it is not all in the sump , drain from the bottom of the motor first .
T hey are a great bike , good luck .

 

[L.A.B.]

Now that it's in my hands, I'd really like to wake her up and see that she runs before I dig into the rewiring. I'm a little concerned about trying to use the hot-wired wiring and so I guess that'd be my first question. He basically has it wired up as such:

lead from battery (-) -> inline fuse -> key ignition switch -> out of the ignition switch -> electronic ignition unit which hooks up to coils
lead from battery (+) -> ground

Super crude, but he claims it worked to fire the bike up and ride it. I have a 12v 7Ah Shorai (lithium) battery on hand so I hooked that up and got spark. Reinstalled the plugs and kicked it over for a couple minutes but didn't get it to fire up. I didn't really want to try more until I had confirmation that this wiring will actually work and furthermore, that it isn't harming anything.

No, it shouldn't harm anything, (assuming the ignition timing is set accurately) and from your description, and the fact that you have sparks would appear to confirm it is connected correctly as only the kill switch is missing from the circuit. Just ensure the Boyer "box" and "coils" both have a good ground/return to the battery(+).

http://www.boyerbransden.com/instructions.html

I also did some quick research on Shorai/lithium batteries on a Commando and there seems to be mixed opinions. I'm wondering if I should be trying this with a different, more to spec battery.

Just about any 7AH battery should be more than adequate to power the ignition and get the bike started as long as it is reasonably well charged and is not faulty.

Finally, the oil level is next to nil so I'd like to fill it at least partway with something for now. I have Bel-Ray 4T EXL 20w-50 mineral oil on-hand. Should be OK?

As dero said, the oil is likely to have drained to the sump if the bike has not been started for a while, so don't add oil to the tank until you have checked. Draining the sump should also make it easier to kick over.

Side note: A fairly reputable Norton guy in the area once warned me that if you don't know what you're doing with a Commando, "it'll blow up on you". :shock: Said there's lots of little tidbits to know.

Well, yes, I suppose he's right up to a point. I certainly suggest you have a good read through the factory manual if you haven't already done so.

http://www.classicbike.biz/Norton/Repai ... mmando.pdf

One example he gave me was that before you kickstart, you should pull the clutch in and lightly kick through a couple times till you "feel the clutch plates break loose" or you'll damage the tranny...or something of the nature.

That can apply to pretty much any British bike, however if your '74 model's clutch still has its original bronze friction plates then the ritual of freeing off the clutch may not be necessary as the bronze plates don't normally stick.

 

[hobageeba]

Thanks so much for your replies! I'll drain the sump, top off oil level, and see is she comes to life. Fingers crossed!!

 

[grandpaul]

Before starting, and after you've drained the sump and freed off the clutch, you NEED to pull the carb and thoroughly soak it in a warm can of Berryman's Chem Dip (or Gunk brand equivalent), then rinse each part thoroughly and blast with compressed air (especially the tiny brass low speed jet) to ensure all passages are free and clear. The carb is very simple, you ALMOST can't go wrong. There are illustrations online to ensure you don't screw up (google is your best friend)

Welcome to the forum, to Commando ownership, and to many fun miles & smiles.

 

[hobageeba]

Before starting, and after you've drained the sump and freed off the clutch, you NEED to pull the carb and thoroughly soak it in a warm can of Berryman's Chem Dip (or Gunk brand equivalent), then rinse each part thoroughly and blast with compressed air (especially the tiny brass low speed jet) to ensure all passages are free and clear.

Yeah the previous owner said the bike was run not too long ago and that he has ethanol free gas in there so it shouldn't be gunked up, but I have a can of Chem Dip so I might as well.

Welcome to the forum, to Commando ownership, and to many fun miles & smiles.

Thanks man!!

 

[baldy]

Highly recommend you find a local chapter of Norton owners assoc at inoanorton.com. Good luck. Search wet sumping on this site too.

 

[cNwRestomod]

I also own a 1974 Norton Commando which most will agree was the best of the year models although I am certain that I'll get a lot of friendly flack for that comment on this forum. You'll find that for every one opinion, there'll be dozens of others, which is good in a way as it generates healthy discussion!
There's a wealth of information available for vintage Norton Commandos so you are in good company. I'd first recommend that you purchase a Workshop Manual and a Parts List. These are available at several establishments. I buy most of the OEM parts from Andover Norton but there are a lot of others. If you like reading, I'd also recommend the Haynes Publication: Norton Commando, Owners Workshop Manual. You'll need some tools; some Standard or American, some British or Whitworth tools and some specialty Norton tools if you intend on servicing the bike yourself. Three of the premier Norton experts on this forum and on the internet (again there are many, many others) are Kenny Cummings of New York City Norton, Matt Rambow of Colorado Norton Works and Jim Comstock of Comstock Engineering. These three guys work on Norton motorcycles for their livelihood; in short, they've forgotten more about Norton motorcycles than I'll ever know. One more book which I think is worth mentioning and that is Proficient Motorcycling (The Ultimate Guide To Riding Well) by David Hough. No one ever taught me to ride a motorcycle and I am probably not alone in that I graduated at a very young age from riding a bicycle to riding a 'bicycle' with a motor between my legs and and several gallons of explosive solvent sitting on top of the motor. In my 55 years of riding, I've laid a motorcycle down once which does not imply that I am a good rider; however, I do try to be careful and avoid the crazies out there on the road. I found that Hough's book was well written and supported a lot of my own learnings and it also provided a lot of kernels of information which I found valuable and hopefully led the way to me being a better rider. Anyway, welcome to the site and enjoy your bike; they are a joy to ride and maintain and, if you are like me, you'll never stop learning.

 

[hobageeba]

Thanks for all the warm welcomes, well wishes, and helpful advice! What a great community.

So first things first, I drained the sump (all the oil was definitely down there), refilled the oil tank, gave it a couple kicks and it STARTED!!! Words can't describe...I know we've all experienced this a number of times, but seriously, best feeling.

Highly recommend you find a local chapter of Norton owners assoc at inoanorton.com. Good luck. Search wet sumping on this site too.

I'll definitely look into the INOA, thanks. Read up on wet sumping as well.

I'd first recommend that you purchase a Workshop Manual and a Parts List.

Yup, I was linked earlier to a download on this site and will download and print. The PO included the Haynes manual as well.

I buy most of the OEM parts from Andover Norton but there are a lot of others

Great to know, thanks!

some Standard or American, some British or Whitworth tools and some specialty Norton tools if you intend on servicing the bike yourself

Yup, I definitely plan on doing the majority, if not all, the servicing myself. It's half the fun for me. I already have a full set of both American/Standard and British/Whitworth tools. I figured all the hardware on this bike is Whitworth, but is there some Standard mixed in as well?

I found that Hough's book was well written and supported a lot of my own learnings and it also provided a lot of kernels of information which I found valuable and hopefully led the way to me being a better rider.

Awesome, thanks for the rec! I'm not all together new to riding (and only have experience with vintage machines) but am definitely not the most experienced. I also took the Motorcycle Safety course here in CA but I'm sure there's still a wealth of knowledge out there that would be fresh info to me.

Anyway, welcome to the site and enjoy your bike; they are a joy to ride and maintain and, if you are like me, you'll never stop learning.

Thanks a bunch! I can't wait to get this bike road worthy (just gotta wire in the new wiring harness now) and give it a real go. Never stop learning indeed!

 

[L.A.B.]

I already have a full set of both American/Standard and British/Whitworth tools. I figured all the hardware on this bike is Whitworth, but is there some Standard mixed in as well?

This can depend on your understanding of Whitworth, as not all British Standard threads are actually "Whitworth". Many Commando fasteners are UNF with some UNC, BSF, CEI/BSC, BSP, BA, BSW and ME threads, plus the occasional fine/special thread thrown in just to keep it interesting!


http://www.britishfasteners.com/threads/index.html

The list below is useful for identifying threads by part number, however, it always pays to double-check as fasteners may have been changed.:
http://stainlessbits.com/link12a.html

There's no illustrated parts book for 1974, only a supplement (06-5988) to be used in conjunction with the 1973 parts book (06-5034).
http://www.andover-norton.co.uk/JRP/JRNORTON.HTM

06-5988

Parts List Supplement, for Commando 850 from Engine Number 307311. List covers the 850Mk2 and Mk2A machines. To be used as Inlays for List 06-5034 above (blue pages, no pictures).

 

[B+Bogus]

Great result on the bike.

Agree that the '74 was the best bike overall, although my Combat was seriously fun!

There's also the old Owner's Club Service Notes (not sure if they're linked in the Info topic), but they're a gold-mine of useful information and user experience. Quite funny in places, too, and very readable:

Broken link removed

 

[L.A.B.]

There's also the old Owner's Club Service Notes (not sure if they're linked in the Info topic), but they're a gold-mine of useful information and user experience. Quite funny in places, too, and very readable

However, that (apparently pirated) copy of the NOC Service Notes contains several document scanning errors, so must be used with care.

 

[cNwRestomod]

Lots of good comments. I'll add that if and when you send in an order to Andover Norton, provide all of the information to them that you can (date, model and serial number). The latter provides them with specific information for your bike in terms of getting the right parts together for your bike. They are a great team at Andover Norton and all of the parts that I have ordered have been exact.
It's also definitely worth looking at the Colorado Norton Works site http://coloradonortonworks.com as Matt has developed a lot of modifications to make these bikes more reliable. I know many owners prefer to have an original Norton; for myself, I prefer to have a bike that is reliable and there are a lot of mods that make these bikes so much more enjoyable to own and ride.

 

[swooshdave]

It also helps if you put your location (state is fine if you're paranoid) as you may find fellow owners nearby.

For some reason I can't see your pics.

 

[hobageeba]

Thanks everyone for all the literature links and continued advice. It's all very much appreciated.

 

[hobageeba]

Currently flummoxed by the wiring. I'm staring at a pre-made loom (bought from Steadfast Cycles by PO) with what seems to be lots of excess wiring and a wiring diagram that seems to hardly match what's sitting in front of me. I believe there's a good deal of aftermarket parts/wiring so a lot of the colors don't match either.

Gonna search this site and pour over all the info, taking it one circuit at a time. If I get really stuck, maybe I'll start a new thread.

I think I can, I think I can, I think I can...

 

[Nater_Potater]

Currently flummoxed by the wiring. I'm staring at a pre-made loom (bought from Steadfast Cycles by PO) with what seems to be lots of excess wiring and a wiring diagram that seems to hardly match what's sitting in front of me. I believe there's a good deal of aftermarket parts/wiring so a lot of the colors don't match either.

Gonna search this site and pour over all the info, taking it one circuit at a time. If I get really stuck, maybe I'll start a new thread.

I think I can, I think I can, I think I can...

No worries. Once you get past the zener diode voltage regulation and thinking in terms of positive earth, the system is really pretty simple, especially if you're used to later model "imports". You might consider going back to an original harness, if only to more easily reconnect to existing items.

As you've already discovered, these engines are prone to losing their oil tank contents into the sump (wet-sumping) where it doesn't belong. Please don't ask, as the answers/suggestions/admonitions will probably bring down the web site!

Dig through the repair manual link that L.A.B. sent you. Note that the wiring diagram may or may not jive with what you have. My '74 (built 12/73) has some anomolies that align more with the '75 MkIII.

As the man once said, question everything! For instance, once you get into the clutch, you'll note the manual telling you to torque the center nut to 70 ft/lb. Don't do it! Looking at the exploded view will show that the clutch center butts up against a very thin wire clip, and that torque will very likely shear it in two.

If you're looking at riding the bike rather than a strictly showroom restoration, a front brake upgrade is in order.

http://www.oldbritts.com/ob_main.html is a very good resource with exploded views and associated parts lists/costs, and Ella is great to work with. Being out of Washington makes for quick shipping times to the West Coast. They also have great tech articles for some of the more involved aspects of repair, such as the layshaft bearing I'm in the process of replacing (one of the few known weaknesses of these bikes).

If you're bored, see she-back-t16865.html for my never-ending story.

Welcome to the club!

Nathan

 

[concours]

Currently flummoxed by the wiring. I'm staring at a pre-made loom (bought from Steadfast Cycles by PO) with what seems to be lots of excess wiring and a wiring diagram that seems to hardly match what's sitting in front of me. I believe there's a good deal of aftermarket parts/wiring so a lot of the colors don't match either.

Gonna search this site and pour over all the info, taking it one circuit at a time. If I get really stuck, maybe I'll start a new thread.

I think I can, I think I can, I think I can...

The Police option wiring is present, lot's of unused stuff.

 

[L.A.B.]

Currently flummoxed by the wiring. I'm staring at a pre-made loom (bought from Steadfast Cycles by PO) with what seems to be lots of excess wiring and a wiring diagram that seems to hardly match what's sitting in front of me.

As concours said, extras are often Interpol (police/military) model wiring.

Concentrate on what's actually shown on the wiring diagram and basically disregard any additional harness wiring. For example, you may find a harness white/purple and a white/red going to the battery compartment area and which are not on the diagram, those two wires don't connect to anything.

I believe there's a good deal of aftermarket parts/wiring so a lot of the colors don't match either.

That is something you will have to figure out, however, as it has a Boyer ignition, any white/blue (but not blue/white) or purple/white wiring will be redundant (along with the 'ballast resistor' and 'capacitor pack' which should already have been either disconnected or removed).

Gonna search this site and pour over all the info, taking it one circuit at a time. If I get really stuck, maybe I'll start a new thread.

I think I can, I think I can, I think I can...

Yes, concentrate on one circuit at a time, if you come across anything you are not sure of, just ask.