650 update ??

Madnorton said:
You don't invest money in ventures and outfits like this, it is lost money, gone, no return, no dividend, no interest - nothing. The sum involved will not touch the sides of what is owed let alone needed.
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I’d say it all depends on the timeframe the investor has in mind and what he/she thinks they’ve bought into.

If they think their first ‘deposit’ is gonna turn the company around and double their investment in 1-3-5 years then they’re gonna be somewhat disappointed.

But the brand itself, and therefore the long term value in Norton is definitely there.
 
Fast Eddie said:
I’d say it all depends on the timeframe the investor has in mind and what he/she thinks they’ve bought into.

If they think their first ‘deposit’ is gonna turn the company around and double their investment in 1-3-5 years then they’re gonna be somewhat disappointed.

But the brand itself, and therefore the long term value in Norton is definitely there.
Click to expand...

The nostalgic value maybe at the moment, who would want NMUK and all the baggage it has, you would have to pay them to take it.
SG knew where to find the money, far more than some secret Norton fan who has just suddenly realised NMUK is short of a few million, he knows who to go to - as we all know he has spoken to them in the past, they would gladly help, but their terms would mean he looses control, but then is that not what is happening now.

The only reason this new backer has been chosen and the rest of Norton fans denied the crowdfund route is for pure greed when the company is finally taken over. Quite happy for us to stump up and cover the liabilities, but not share the riches when the company is taken over. Why not do both and then everyone, the fans , the backer and SG all win, but no, we are not worthy - nice way to treat your potential customers!!
 
I didn't see anywhere that the attempt was to release a majority shareholding to the public, just simply an offer to buy into the company through the release of some shares. I would imagine that SG would want to keep the major shareholding which would suggest that the assets and orders are somewhat more than double the £5M.

I didn't get an email, I guess I've been struck off for whatever reason o_O
 
Crowdfunding is not a share offer, otherwise it would be called a share offer.
Norton holdings group owns 100% of the shares in NMUK, a company itself with huge liability.
An order book worth 10 million at the moment is worth nothing as the profit on that order book will be consumed by the liabilities. If the projected profit was 33% you can see the problem, it still don't fill the hole that is there now.
The problem is how much profit per hand-built UK 650 bike is there? I doubt it is going to be 5 grand a unit.
If the 5 million is just to buy the parts, then what about labour, rates, utilities etc additional costs which add to the hole in the finances that is there now.
 
Begs the question if the employees have been given a million in shares between them, why has this not been recorded at Companies House as of this morning. All NMUK shares are owned by Norton holdings.
 
Madnorton said:
Crowdfunding is not a share offer, otherwise it would be called a share offer.
Click to expand...
I've not seen the crod funding articles. I was referring to the £1M share issue to those inside the company as a thank you for getting Norton this far, and the call on private individuals to take up further shares... unless I misread it.
 
Madnorton said:
Begs the question if the employees have been given a million in shares between them, why has this not been recorded at Companies House as of this morning. All NMUK shares are owned by Norton holdings.
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Yes it does beg the question... shares in what exactly.
 
Trouble is, if Bloor inc took Norton over and wanted to do so to utilise their current knowledge, factories, etc... and if they wanted a suitable return on their investment... then they’d have to totally start from scratch and build a modern, reliable, economical to build, high volume machine that exploited economies of scale on their supply chain... which then would be so much like their current classic range that the majority of customers they attract would be those who would have otherwise likely bought a Triumph anyway. Resulting in few net additional sales. This is known as ‘brand cannibalism’ whereby one’s own offerings are competing with each other to a negative extent.

The alternative is that they buy Norton and leave it be as a stand alone ‘niche / boutique’ concern... but I can’t see how they’d benefit from that either.

It would be awesome for Norton owners if they did, imagine having access to the huge Triumph dealership network! But even that raises another negative, they know they’d be buying responsibility for troublesome machines.

Bottom line, IMHO, is I can see little or no benefit to Triumph for buying Norton. Thus I can’t imagine they’re remotely interested.

Just my take.
 
650 update ??
 
Fast Eddie said:
Trouble is, if Bloor inc took Norton over and wanted to do so to utilise their current knowledge, factories, etc... and if they wanted a suitable return on their investment... then they’d have to totally start from scratch and build a modern, reliable, economical to build, high volume machine that exploited economies of scale on their supply chain... which then would be so much like their current classic range that the majority of customers they attract would be those who would have otherwise likely bought a Triumph anyway. Resulting in few net additional sales. This is known as ‘brand cannibalism’ whereby one’s own offerings are competing with each other to a negative extent.

The alternative is that they buy Norton and leave it be as a stand alone ‘niche / boutique’ concern... but I can’t see how they’d benefit from that either.

It would be awesome for Norton owners if they did, imagine having access to the huge Triumph dealership network! But even that raises another negative, they know they’d be buying responsibility for troublesome machines.

Bottom line, IMHO, is I can see little or no benefit to Triumph for buying Norton. Thus I can’t imagine they’re remotely interested.

Just my take.
Click to expand...

Doubt it’s Bloor too.
Norton is nothing to worry about for Triumph.
But let’s say it is Bloor, what might he be up to?

1. Buy the Norton brand, peanut/cigarette money to Bloor really. Then bury the brand, take it off market for ever. Now who ya gonna buy a modern classic from.


2. OK, Bloor buys the brand, then tells his product boys to take the Triumph Speed Twin, paint the tank to say Norton, put a big “N” on the timing cover, and paint Commando 1200 on the side covers. Viola - Norton Commando 1200. Now, you want a Norton, buy it from Triumph. Zero development cost to Bloor.
 

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