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22 year old and my first norton 650 ss :) from england

Discussion in 'Other Norton Motorcycles' started by norton_rider, Aug 25, 2011.

  1. norton_rider

    norton_rider

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Cheers mate :) yeah actually got into her today here's a picture of the plates bit of a disaster today but it's all learning

    [​IMG]clutch plates 650ss by norton.rider, on Flickr

    [​IMG]IMG_20180913_161712743-01 (1) by norton.rider, on Flickr

    Looks like its an RGM item 1 outer plate then 4 friction an 4 steels

    Tried adjusting her but it didn't have to much success initially it stopped slipping an actually went forward on the clutch.. Success or so I thought got her on the road by the end of the street the lever biting point had gone back to just before u let go of the clutch lever. ended up having to slip it to get back.

    Took it apart again an back together a few times one one attempt all the free play disappeared an it went super tight on another go after letting the clutch out lever travel went excessive.

    which was weird.

    Put the clutch together

    springs so the nut bottom is flush with the sleeve it sits in? So the springs just disappear ? or do I want the very top of the stud that starts protruding flush with the very end of the nut ?

    adjust centre lock nut for 1/8th free play on the little lever in the gearbox

    then adjust the clutch lever for 1/8th of free play at the bar end of the job.


    Any advice would be super appreciated at the moment I'm thinking of ordering new plates an springs
     
  2. norton bob

    norton bob

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    If you gently squeeze the plates together there should be NO gaps between plain and friction plates, I put the plates against a flat Kitchen worktop or glass and check with a feeler gauge . Cheap plates may be a bit tight in the drum also, a photo of the center may help.Top of nut flush with end of stud, or close to it. spring boxes(tubes) have to sit right into center ,outside of tubes get ridges worn on from rubbing against center ,emery them off.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
  3. norton_rider

    norton_rider

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
  4. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    You know about the importance of ensuring the plate lifts evenly, springs adjusted so the pressure plate is flat when you kick it over with the clutch lever pulled in etc?
     
    norton_rider likes this.
  5. norton_rider

    norton_rider

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    yep think we might have a theory that the little pawl that the clutch cable fits in might be jamming itself down, on mine as u tighten the pushrod it's tending to pull the arm down so its close to the bottom screw on the inspection hole, lad just mentioned it on one of the FB groups found a picture in one of the main manuals an its more central within the picture, might explain the sudden changes in adjustment :)
     
  6. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    That pawl can drop down very easily whilst still ‘feeling’ correct. Definitely worth a look...
     
  7. norton bob

    norton bob

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    The big bits I can see all look in good order although plates don't look flat, Do you have the right number of plates for your bike? The cable lever/arm does get very close to the box cover normally ,its position will vary dependant on the adjustment of the pressure plate , Release the cable then screw the plate adjuster in tight and back off half a turn. This will usually set things right but also can make re-fitting the cable a bit of a faff, I use a large screwdriver and needle nose pliers levering the arm away from the cover to make room to slot the cable in.Just having lots of cable slack may be enough to let you set it up.if the arm is too far in you will lose leverage.The arm can benefit from a little re-profiling to make the action more gradual.for this you will have to part strip the box. No big deal ,i recently had to strip my box in a muddy campsite, wonder if ground up grass helps the gears?.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  8. norton_rider

    norton_rider

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Cheers guys I'm gonna get her out again now and have a look while I wait for the replacement studs to come hoping they turn up today :)

    Emailed RGM as it looks like it's one of there clutches to find out about the plates from all my reading up looks like it should be 5+5 and the end plate one thats half an half this is 4+4 and end plate so wondering if the previous owner fitted the wrong clutch shes got about 45k on her now an he did say he put a new clutch in. So we shall see not sure Id be able to get it to fit another 2 plates so it's got me thinking the whole clutch might be wrong.

    Will see if RGM say its good enough or not
     
  9. norton bob

    norton bob

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    My thinking exactly, it could be that the drum is not RGM and is from an earlier 4 plate set up. It should look fuller but does not look like it has the room for the 5 plate set up.If replacing the studs there are a few other things worth checking while you are in there ,Roller clearance,spider register ,clearance to sleeve gear etc ,if you get these all A1 you can have a really nice gearchange and neutral selection. However if working in a dark muddy field and you put the KS pawl in upside down and the change spring in working back to front you will have a box the same as mine!. BTW the 3 studs will feel like the threads are crap ,its normal due to the nut locking detail.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  10. norton_rider

    norton_rider

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    know that feeling got rained off today haah got everything out all organised an it started chucking it down lol joy's did put the nuts on correctly so studs line up with top of the nuts an the plate's weren't pulling apart so guess I'm gonna have to go light an adjust till it stops slipping. Had a quick look at the pawl in the gearbox side starts pulling down soon as I take up the exessive clearance to 1/8th on the pushrod, soon as I get a dry day gonna take the pushrod out etc and do some measuring :) Can't wait to get to the bottom of it.
     
  11. norton bob

    norton bob

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Its a bit like a detective jigsaw that can take YEARS of pure pleasure to solve. But you have to be a bit weird to want it. Renewing the studs is not as simple as it looks, You could get to be an expert if you do it wrong 2 or3 times!. Further advice if you want it. Or just become an expert.
     
  12. norton bob

    norton bob

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Sounds like you have a bit of a missmatch in the parts. Easy to do, now come the detective work. 50 years after the crime.
     
  13. norton_rider

    norton_rider

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Hi bob meant the nuts not the studs :) sorry mate used the wrong term new ones just arrived and don't fit the corresponding tool which doesn't fit the nuts from the same supplier and ones got a load of swarf jammed in it joys. Just waiting to hear back from them.

    Just had the pushrod out measures up at
    9 inches an a 10/16 the or 24.6 cm

    Springs are 40.4 mm
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  14. norton_rider

    norton_rider

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Been messing for a few hours with it before seem to be getting somewhere now :)

     
  15. norton bob

    norton bob

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    If when you kick the motor over you can't feel any slip and when you pull the clutch in and kick it and it spins freely without any sign of drag you are on the right track. Anything less and its not worth putting it back together as lots still to do.
     
  16. norton_rider

    norton_rider

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Cheers Bob I actually tried it before lost all the drive again kept the primary cover off this time though an noticed one of the clutch spring nuts backed itself off under load so hopefully that's one of the issues :) got some new ones from a supplier that don't fit the tool I got of them as well lol so gonna modify the slots an fit those as they aren't getting back to me yet
    Providing i can get the swarf/stuff jammed in one of them out

    Quick question guys

    On the pushrod adjustment

    Cable slack
    Tighten the pushrod in then out till 1/8th free play in the gearbox lever
    Then take slack up in cable till 1/8th at bar

    Should you still have any freeplay in the lever in the gearbox ?
    An what symptom would excessive play in the pushrod adjustment cause ? :) Trying to understand how it all works a bit better
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
  17. norton bob

    norton bob

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    The half a turn back setting on the clutch center nut gives and probably equates to your 1/8th play at the box lever. The pawl is a kickstart part inside the box inner cover ,not in the outer cover and has no part in the clutch workings , terminology again!. Those pesky clutch spring nuts are either loose or too grippy .A pushrod either a bit longer or shorter than std would usually be compensated by the clutch center adjustment---till you run out of adjustment. Then you know its really no good.Too few plates would make it look like the pushrod is too long as the pressure plate would sit closer in to the box.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
  18. norton_rider

    norton_rider

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Cheers mate :) yep think I'm pretty close to it working now had a go on it before an sussed out one of the darn clutch springs was backing itself right off once the bike was under load :) fitted some new nuts so will give her another whirl tomorrow if it's dry pulling nice and even now to :)
     
  19. norton_rider

    norton_rider

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Well I actually found the issue !! Last year ended up a total write of due to the redundancy and stuff, ended up with replacement nuts but one started backing off again. Luckily Andover are doing some dommie bits now, Going to order some new nuts and spring cups, looks like the springs were the wrong size by the original owner on rebuild and had grooved the spring cups heavily to the point the springs are binding in them.

    So fingers crossed this sorts her an I can get out alot this year!
     
  20. norton bob

    norton bob

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    My old 99 has become so reliable its getting boring ,a fussy misbehaving SS sounds most invigorating!. Its got to the stage that all I do now is look into the tank for fuel and eye the tyres up,then go off for a 150 mile run .I don't go above 80mph often as visions of rods poking thro cases in the background.
     

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