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1972 Combat. Setting the new 932 Amal Premier: a nightmare!

Discussion in 'Norton Commando Motorcycles (Classic)' started by pierodn, Apr 12, 2018.

  1. gtiller

    gtiller VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2012
    @pierodn do Andover have them in stock?

    I bought some last week, and none of my usual Norton haunts had them.
    Burlen Fuels (who make Amal) also doesn’t have them in stock.

    In the end, I ended up ordering them from Hitcocks (Royal Oilfield specialist) who sent them through the next day.

    ...seems there’s a world shortage of #19 pilot jets!!!
     
    Joe Schlaberdowski likes this.
  2. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    gtiller likes this.
  3. Adam_R

    Adam_R

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2015
    it was reading this thread that caused me to order a pair from Andover, they were showing as in stock at the time of order but are now showing an un-availible.
    im hoping that they will help to solve my idle and overrun lean popping issue
     
  4. pierodn

    pierodn

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2012
    Hi.
    Andover promised me two 19 for next week.
    But is better dont buy new Amal Premier.
    I run with old that you can overhaulled easy.
    Piero
     
  5. cliffa

    cliffa

    Joined:
    May 26, 2013

    General question, but can't you open up the 17's with a 19 thou drill bit? (if one is available)
     
  6. Adam_R

    Adam_R

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2015
    i hadn't thought of this.... so no idea???
    just got off the phone to Andover who were away to send me just one, with the other on back order :rolleyes: canceled the order and called RGM who have them in stock, dispatched today.
    hopefully get them for the weekend
     
  7. ML

    ML

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Hate to say this, but some time ago I purchased 2 new Amals for an 850. Ran like crap, could not sync the left cylinder. Pulled them down and found machining swarf trapped in the jet body holder between main and needle jets. Returned them to vendor and wrote a wingeagram to Burlen who promptly apologied and sent 2 new ones. Ever since, (some 8 carbs on other jobs) I fully strip down and inspect and clean with solvent and air pressure, and check the float heights. After that, never had a problem and really like the new Amals.
     
  8. pierodn

    pierodn

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2012
    I only know that now with the old carbs overhaulled the bike runs great while with the new Premier was a nightmare.
    Piero
     
  9. Mr. Rick

    Mr. Rick VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2009
    Maybe at this point, you cd send them back for evaluation. Perhaps they can examine them and tell you what's not correct?

    And I'd like to know a couple of things about the Premier:
    Is the idle circuit now actually more precise, compared to the old-style bush?
    Can you really remove the new pilot jets without pulling one of the carbs off a Commando?
     
  10. cliffa

    cliffa

    Joined:
    May 26, 2013
    Not sure if they are more precise but you do have to remove one carb to unscrew the pilots. Also a lot of folks have said you can clean the jets out with a #78 drill, piano wire, stand of wire brush and many other ways. I made a holder for a drill bit and found it impossible to get it into the jet and gave up before I damaged them. It would be good if Burlen made a proper cleaning tool for the jets.


    cliffa
     
  11. Mr. Rick

    Mr. Rick VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2009
  12. CanukNortonNut

    CanukNortonNut

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Try attaching a spray can wand to the guitar wire or drill with crazy glue.
    Cheers,
    Thomas
     
  13. htown16

    htown16 VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009
    I've had some problems recently with new Premiers with the slide slightly sticking especially when the engine is fully warmed up. This causes the rpm to stay elevated for a while and then it may drop to normal or stay high. Idle is impossible to set as it fluctuates up and down. I know not to over tighten the flanges or you warp the carb and I didn't think I did. I use blue loctite and spring washers and just tighten until the washer is flat. But when I took the carb apart and tried dropping the slide into the top it would hang up. I used a pair of these(below) to sqeeze the carb body with the slide in the body. You may have to try several orientations to find the right spot but when you find it and release the pliers and the slide will drop on its own. Keep playing around with it until the slide will drop to the bottom of the body by itself. The anodized slides seem a very snug fit.
    http://toolguyd.com/kobalt-magnum-grip-pliers
     
  14. Mr. Rick

    Mr. Rick VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2009
    That is certainly a damning review, htown.
    I cannot imagine taking a chance on having the slide stick open. What if it were to happen at WOT?

    As for having to squeeze one to make it round enough to work? Beyond the pale, IMO-
     
  15. Atlas Commando

    Atlas Commando VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2018
    Somebody asked about drilling out #17's to create #19's. This can absolutely be done. In ancient times, a mechanic's apprenticeship included drilling out jets, then soldering them closed and re-drilling them to another size. This was back before the prevalence of fuel injection.
     
    cliffa likes this.
  16. cliffa

    cliffa

    Joined:
    May 26, 2013
    Fast Eddie, can you clarify “much better” please. I.e. Better idle, better throttle response ?

    Cheers,

    cliffa
     
  17. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Well I’m NOT talking about any measured BHP increase. What I have found is:

    Better starting, tick over and low speed throttle response.

    They deter fouling much better than standard plugs.

    They last longer. This is more beneficial than you might first think as spark plugs are not light bulbs, they don’t just ‘blow’, they degrade over time and cause poor running and lose BHP and all sorts. By the time they cause something like bad misfiring, forcing us to change them, they have been causing us issues for quite some time.

    I change mine every year as I then know I’m ‘playing safe’ and avoiding any issues. Some say they are expensive, but is a pair of plugs per year to ensure piece of mind really expensive in the scheme of things ?!

    I’ve had brand new standard plugs give up in one day on the track before, and because they were new, I naturally assumed they were ok, and chased my tail for ages.

    I therefore, won’t use anything else.

    Others, of course, have equally strongly held, and different, opinions.
     
  18. cliffa

    cliffa

    Joined:
    May 26, 2013
    Thanks Eddie, I wasn't expecting to get another 10HP ;) although it would be nice if it were that simple. I was just wondering as the move to #19 seems to be a popular idea from what i'm reading. Being a tightwad i'm just going to run a 0.5mm drill through mine as it very close to 0.019" Oh, and also being lazy I'm going to try and make a drill bit holder so that I can use to drill them in situ. I don't think the tiny amount of swarf would cause any issues. I can also use that same tool to periodically clean them.

    On the subject of plugs, on a couple of occasions when starting my old Yamaha TR1 it has backfired, and then completely refused to start. The first time I was the same as you thinking the E.I. box or something had died. Tested everything & it turned out it was just the plugs suddenly giving up the ghost. I replaced them and all was fine again. The last thing I would have expected.


    Cheers,

    cliffa.
     
  19. gtiller

    gtiller VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2012
    @cliffa are you talking about Premier Concentrics?

    The pilot jet unscrews on these carbs, and has multiple holes, not a single hole.

    The #17 vs #19 numbers refer only to the new Premiers.

    F70C82C1-C10C-4409-8B64-A07E563C5396.jpeg

    7AA0198E-65B2-437C-BE2E-9A6C726BF376.jpeg

    The older Concentrics post 68/69 have bushed pilots, the #17 of the new Premiers according to Amal equates to the old skool 23cc pilot bushing which was drilled at 0.017”
     
    cliffa likes this.
  20. cliffa

    cliffa

    Joined:
    May 26, 2013
    Hi gtiller, sorry yes Premiers (I should have stated that). I realize the removable pilots have multiple feed holes, but the hole in the tip is the one we are concerned with I think?

    Thanks for the pics by the way! Just what I need to see for the making of my drilling / cleaning attachment.


    Cheers,

    cliffa.