The new anti association laws and bikie crack down

acotrel · May 9, 2014

I think the convicts in 1803 might have been the group which tried to settle at Sorrento on Port Phillip Bay. Also there was a group at Geelong from which William Buckley escaped. When you speak of thousands, it was nothing like that. Melbourne was founded in 1835, prior to that I believe only those two other attempts were made to settle. Victoria was never a penal colony. In the mid 1800s there was an attempt made to land convicts at Williamstown in Melbourne and it was strongly resisted. The main convict settlements were Hobart, then NSW, then Queensland. I believe there might have been a few at Frremantle. There is a big difference in mindset of people living in Sydney compared with Melbourne. Read up on the Rum corps and Capt John McArthur and Governor Bligh. They estabilished the early political climate. These days the descendents of the Rum Corps are there in the form of police, and the convict culture still exists to a certain extent. I think you need to understand our typical attitude towards police, there is an age old tradition the nobody turns informer, there is a blind eye turned on a lot of things. However if you like we will always arrange to sell you that big bridge in Sydney.
Hobart is a very strange place, and I don't go to Port Arthur, there are too many ghosts there.

wakeup · May 9, 2014

acotrel said:
I think the convicts in 1803 might have been the group which tried to settle at Sorrento on Port Phillip Bay. Also there was a group at Geelong from which William Buckley escaped. When you speak of thousands, it was nothing like that. Melbourne was founded in 1835, prior to that I believe only those two other attempts were made to settle. Victoria was never a penal colony. In the mid 1800s there was an attempt made to land convicts at Williamstown in Melbourne and it was strongly resisted. The main convict settlements were Hobart, then NSW, then Queensland. I believe there might have been a few at Frremantle. There is a big difference in mindset of people living in Sydney compared with Melbourne. Read up on the Rum corps and Capt John McArthur and Governor Bligh. They estabilished the early political climate. These days the descendents of the Rum Corps are there in the form of police, and the convict culture still exists to a certain extent. I think you need to understand our typical attitude towards police, there is an age old tradition the nobody turns informer, there is a blind eye turned on a lot of things. However if you like we will always arrange to sell you that big bridge in Sydney.
Hobart is a very strange place, and I don't go to Port Arthur, there are too many ghosts there.

Just after arriving in Sydney from the UK, the boss and I were in a cab going to pick up our nice shiny new car. Got chatting to the cabbie, and one of his statements was "...you can do whatever you like in Australia, just don't get caught"

Going by the current corruption inquiries going on in Sydney I'm guessing that a few more politicians sphincters would be fluttering at the moment.

cheers
wakeup

acotrel · May 9, 2014

I'm amazed that corruption inquiry is actually effective. Out politicians are usually too smart to let that happen. The latest one onto the unions should be interesting, it is an obvious attempt to denigrate - always pleasant when that sort of cynicism backfires. The joke is that both sides of politics play the same games. Everybody has to have a 'slush fund' ?

Hobot · May 9, 2014

Real statesmen don't do dirty deals that hurt the population so don't play ball with those it takes to get to the top and stay there. Clean ups go through cycles but doesn't usually touch the power players behind the scenes. Safe Journeys.

Rohan · May 9, 2014

acotrel said:
I think the convicts in 1803 might have been the group which tried to settle at Sorrento on Port Phillip Bay. Also there was a group at Geelong from which William Buckley escaped. When you speak of thousands, it was nothing like that. Melbourne was founded in 1835, prior to that I believe only those two other attempts were made to settle. .

THOUSANDS of convicts arrived in Victoria in the 1840s, on about a dozen ships.

acotrel said:
Victoria was never a penal colony. .

History says otherwise.

davamb · May 9, 2014

hobot said:
Real statesmen don't do dirty deals that hurt the population so don't play ball with those it takes to get to the top and stay there. Clean ups go through cycles but doesn't usually touch the power players behind the scenes. Safe Journeys.

Going to have to call you on that one Steve.

The fundamental purpose of business is not to provide a service (product) to the public, it is to make a profit for the shareholders. Whatever it takes to maximise this return is to be pursued. The product is to be made at the lowest possible cost at the lowest possible standard of quality and sold at the highest price the market will tolerate. Cartels and price fixing among competitors is to be fostered if there is any possible chance of it going undetected. Advertising is to make the absolute most of the truth short of outright lies. Whatever can be done to remove competition shall be done.
Are you getting the drift? This is not pure pessimism, this is how to run an effective business.

The fundamental purpose of a political party is not to serve the public, it is to gain power and once having gained it, to stay in power. Do not ever, ever think otherwise.
Do I need to spell out the parallels?

Rohan · May 9, 2014

wakeup said:
"...you can do whatever you like in Australia, just don't get caught"

Thats true everywhere, isn't it ?!!

In the past century, we have seen everything from Presidents impeached,
to dictators executed, to just last week the Thai PM was kicked out for an incompetent/corrupt rice buying program !

In China, they execute public servants for failing to do their duty.
Imagine if that caught on in the West....

davamb · May 9, 2014

acotrel said:
Victoria was never a penal colony. .

Correct.

Rohan said:
History says otherwise.

Do tell. What history is that? Where were these Victorian penal colonies? A handful of convicts landed at Sorrento and a failed attempt at Corinella (where I live)? The only permanent colonies were Sydney Cove in NSW and Port Arthur in Tasmania. There were a couple of others that were short-lived in NSW, QLD and WA, but none in Victoria, SA or NT. If you have access to an unknown alternative history of this country please feel free to share it.

ashman · May 9, 2014

The corrurtion watch dog that cleaned up QLD old habbits was independently run but now the new QLD goverment has sack them and is appointing a Goverment picked boss to run the CJC, so what have they got to hide it will alway answer to the Goverment which for sure will take us back 20 years ago when corrurtion days run riot in the old Joe days, this new Newman gov is so argant because they won with such a majority they think they are above themselfs, but that will fall down with a thump and the inderpendent pollies will be the winners as poeple are so sick of the 2 party system.

The poeple have woken up to their crap and of course they keep blaming to old Gov and still not tell everone the truf, but we aren't idoits and they will fall on their swords.

Ashley

Rohan · May 9, 2014

5 seconds of googling/searching shows convict ships to VIC.
There are endless pages on where they where and what they did.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/c ... psVIC.html

I've seen convict built buildings in Vic, on a public tour,
quite some decades ago, so it can't be much of a secret....
Perhaps your memory has conveniently ommitted this ?

Bit like the USA denying they were a penal dumping ground.
Or parts thereof....

davamb · May 9, 2014

Rohan said:
Perhaps your memory has conveniently omitted this ?

Ok buddy, you can hand out all the in insults you like about my cognitive capabilities, but in the meantime I'll repeat my question:

davamb said:
Where were these Victorian penal colonies?

All you have to do is tell me where they were located. Should be a simple task.

ashman · May 9, 2014

Whats convicts got to do with anti association laws and bikie crack downs, what happened in the past should stay in the past, its history now, but these new laws are here now and this Goverment is running a muck and making up new laws without thinking about it first they are making them up on the run, they are getting the judges off side as well as the lawers and anyone else that gets in front of them, our rights are being taken away and we will all be treated as crinmials and for us to prove it otherwise, they are selling our resorses to overseas intrest for short term gains and then what happens when its to late we all be down the gurglar together for their mistakes.

Ashley

Rohan · May 9, 2014

I didn't even note we had a new player here.
S'funny, all the Victorians are lining up to deny they had convicts ??
Didn't you go to school there, and go on the history visits ?

Convict arrivals in VIC.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/c ... psVIC.html

Vic Register of convicts.
http://www.access.prov.vic.gov.au/publi ... tityId=110
Supposed to be online somewhere... ?

I have no idea where they housed the convicts -
I don't live in VIC, and this was all before my time. !!
Wiki notes all the jails were mostly out in the country.
Beechworth was one place we had tours.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HM_Prison_Beechworth
Note the mention of the earlier stockade....

A lot of convicts sent to WA were freed on arival, maybe VIC did the same ?
Remember too that Vic was officially a part of NSW for many a year,
so convicts assigned there were recorded in the NSW system ?

Rohan · May 9, 2014

ashman said:
Whats convicts got to do with anti association laws and bikie crack downs,

What it has to do with is where the Gubberment got their thinking patterns from.....

If the thinking is Lord & Master, and we can hang the peasants any old time we feel like it,
well this shows in the laws they enact ??

Qld currently seems to have a military dictatorship, (Mr Neumann being ex-Army)
and Canberra seems to have moved to goodness-knows-what..
Punish the peasants for having previously voted in a Labor Gov't seems to figure prominently though... ?

Rohan · May 9, 2014

Geelong Jail

"and it was built by convicts who were housed in hulks moored in Corio Bay.".

acotrel · May 10, 2014

Rohan said:
acotrel said:

I think the convicts in 1803 might have been the group which tried to settle at Sorrento on Port Phillip Bay. Also there was a group at Geelong from which William Buckley escaped. When you speak of thousands, it was nothing like that. Melbourne was founded in 1835, prior to that I believe only those two other attempts were made to settle. .

Click to expand...

THOUSANDS of convicts arrived in Victoria in the 1840s, on about a dozen ships.

acotrel said:

Victoria was never a penal colony. .

Click to expand...

History says otherwise.

Where is your evidence, and where were they jailed ? There was nothing here for them. We had Pentridge Jail In Melbourne and the Old Melbourne Jail - where were these thousands of convicts kept ? Most of the infrastructure in Victoria was financed by the Gold Rush. There are no buildings in Melbourne
even remotely resembling the old convict-built buildings in Sydney or at Port Arthur.
History doesn't say otherwise, Rohan says otherwise.

acotrel · May 10, 2014

From Victorian records :
'Convicts as referred to in this PROVguide are those people convicted of an offence in Britain, or a British colony, whose sentence was to be transported to New South Wales, Tasmania or Western Australia. Transportation officially ceased in New South Wales and Tasmania in 1853 and in Western Australia in 1868. Strictly speaking, no convicts were transported directly to the Port Phillip District of New South Wales. However convicts did find their way to the District, and this generally happened in one of three ways: a convict from Sydney could be assigned to a work gang in Port Phillip; a ticket of leave holder might enter Port Phillip from either New South Wales or Tasmania to work and was required to register with the authorities; or the convict may have been an Exile.'

Rohan · May 10, 2014

Rohan said:
Geelong Jail

"and it was built by convicts who were housed in hulks moored in Corio Bay.".

Where are the records that show how many were involved here ??

Much of Beechworth was convict built, how many were involved there ?

That shipping record shows a number of ships delivering convicts to Port Melbourne.
That doesn't sound like no convicts in Vic ??
Its a myth there were NO convicts sent to Vic.
Its just that folks would prefer it that were were none... ?

In case you had missed it, the Brits housed convicts that were to be shipped overseas in hulks moored about the place.
When convicts were first sent to Australia, some of them had been in 'hulks' for years...

Rohan · May 10, 2014

http://www.findboatpics.net/zpct.html

"The Eden made four voyages as a convict transport - two to Sydney,"
1849
<snip>
"There was opposition to the landing of convicts at Port Phillip so
the 198 male convicts designated for Port Phillip were unloaded at Geelong "

http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/c ... psVIC.html
Looks like quite a few went to Geelong.
Why don't we find how many were housed in those hulks...

Looks like Geelong was the centre of convict action...
"The City of Greater Geelong has, since 1993, incorporated Geelong, Geelong West, Newtown, South Barwon, Bellarine and the shire of Corio. It is an industrial, commercial and educational centre as well as a port. It also contains numerous historic buildings (over 30 of which are listed by the Victorian Heritage Register) and a well-maintained foreshore, which is dotted with around 100 bollards portraying historic characters. The foreshore is also home to Geelong's first 'Stony Pier', which was constructed using convict labour, as well as the more prominent Cunningham Pier."

Looks like these convicts were counted as NSW examples.
http://libraries.hobsonsbay.vic.gov.au/ ... lliamstown

Also
"Squatters brought their assigned convicts with them, and squatters tended not to report their convict servants, even through Lieutenant Governor Latrobe constantly requested numbers. By June 1840 he was able to account for only 308, but believed there were hundreds more not advised by their masters."

The paras after the heading 'Convict violence at Williamstown' (near the bottom)
makes interesting reading.
No convicts in Victoria ??

Hobot · May 11, 2014

Its tough all over so who ya gonna call? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Be sure to check out the author of this.
There are several on this list who have first hand experience.
At the risk of being redundant, watch what you do and say. The time has arrived when those who carry gub'mint issued guns will be ordered to kill you for doing or saying something that is morally and lawfully correct. And they will.
Call the Cops at Your Peril
Explaining why it's not a good idea to call the Amerikan police, Paul Craig Roberts cites some really shocking examples of their behaviour recently

View on www.thetruthseeker....
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=97063

Chained and caged pets are fair game too
https://www.google.com/#q=cops+shooting+pets