Seeley Frames

The best ever 350cc single cylinder racing motor was in the 1958 AJS 7R . And the best ever British racing frame was the Mk3 Seeley. In the mid 1960s the best British racing single was the Seeley 7R. In the early 1970s, the 500cc Seeley G50 was competitive in races against the larger capacity multicylinder motorcycles.
My Seeley 850 classic racer is similar to the Seeley750s which were raced stccessfully by Gus Kuhn against the factory Nortons, none of which probably ever used Commando road frames.
I do not know who is making Seeley frames and tanks in the UK these days, but whomever it is should be nurtured and supported.
The Seeley Condor 500 road bike, never went into production. But perhaps there might be a market for it now.

A disc braked, 6 speed Seeley G50 would be better on most race circuits than any Commando-based motorcycle.

Al Seeley G50 road bikes are & have been available for many years. Also Manx, Vincent, AJS 7R. Steve Tonkin David Hailwood etc.

To add another point. I believe the Mk4 is the best Seeley frame.

acotrel said:

A disc braked, 6 speed Seeley G50 would be better on most race circuits than any Commando-based motorcycle.

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How is that possible… when you’ve spent the last 10 years persuading us that your Commando-based motorcyle is unbeatable?!

Fast Eddie said:

How is that possible… when you’ve spent the last 10 years persuading us that your Commando-based motorcyle is unbeatable?!

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How dare you disagree with the sage

Seeley920 said:

How dare you disagree with the sage

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I wouldn’t dare.

In fact, I haven’t.

I’m just asking why he’s disagreeing with himself …

We all have our loves of engineer frames and will hammer the ones we all believe in, Al loves his Seeley frame Commando race bike, and he keeps telling us how good it is on the track although it's a stock motor, he has always told us of his crashes in his younger race days and he keeps hammering it into us all but in reality he hasn't been on it for 10 years, bit of a shame and waste in my opinion, but old age catches up with everyone and only memories of times gone by, don't get me wrong Al but having a love of something you keep at it and ride it more as you get older while you can still enjoy it, well that's my opinion anyway.
I have my love of Featherbed frames as we all know it was built for the road to be ridden at anytime, my 850 Commando motor was built for the hard mount Featherbed frame and special attention to the crank balance factor, I still run flat top older Hepalite pistons 40th oversize with my stock cam built up to 2S grind, my head is still running the stock valves but lots of port work to make it breath and shaved head as well open exhaust pipes to get that burn gas out quick but still with back pressure and carbs jetted for the motor.
My point is we all build our bikes the way we desire it to be ridden, Al you built yours for the track but with a stock motor, I built mine for the road with a slight but not over done hot motor and built for reliability and high performance at the time I built it and after over 40 years built this way in the Featherbed frame it has proven itself as till 2013 it was an everyday rider and is still a joy to take out , it's now my toy and to be able to ride it for as long as I can without wearing it out, its showing it's age now but it still goes as good the day I built it and I still get a thrill when riding it, just I don't flog it as how I use to, I have my Triumph Thruxton to do that these days.
At lease I still ride it, not as much as I use to but its semi retired just like its owner and life does get in the way of ride time, but it's well maintained and the good thing is I can get on it anytime one kick to fire it up and take it out when ever I want, 10 years of not riding it is just not in my plans, its got to be taken out regularly to keep myself sane, I love my Thruxton but the Norton gives me the most thrills as its built by my own hands and will always be my number one bike as it should be over 46 years when I first rolled it out the front door of the dealership, I never forget that day, 17 years old and a brand new 850 Commando.
My Commando Featherbed is light, handle like it's on rails, has a very reliable and torque motor and a very experience owner/rider and is a pleasure to ride and push it to its limits, it looks old and well ridden and where ever I park up it draws a crowd and they always hang around to watch me kick it to life and lucky it's always on the first kick every time.
Al get that Seeley going and ride it one more time instead of talking about the old days, just don't let it sit going to waste, it deserves better, as I say you tell us how good it is but you not been riding it for soooo long, bit of a shame really.

Ashley

My bike is still in a few pieces, but it is nothing which cannot be fixed in a couple of hours mucking around. However I have a problem with Winton Raceway in getting track time, these days. I used to be friends with the CEO there. With the car club which owns the circuit, while my friend was alive, he was the best man on the planet, now he is dead, he is a bastard. In the last 12 months, there have been two motorcycle race meetings. Prior to each meetimg there has been one practice day. Both meetings were back in May when it was pissing rain. In a few days time, the new year will begin and there might be a new calendar. For the past 3 years there has been no calendar due to the pandemic. Prior to that I was busy for about 10 years with rellies leaving the planet. The last time I raced was just after my mother died.
This coming year should be different. I will have to work my way around the car club, but I have something to say to them which they might not necessarily like, but will understand.
I sincerely intend to do some on-board video, if only to document what the Seeley 850 does in corners. To me it is an achievement. I never thought anyone could ride a motorcycle into a corner in the middle of the road and then accelerate full blast from beginning to end of the corner, all the way around it. Sensibly, you would not even try to do it. One thing I must always do, is brake just before the corner and then accelerate hard, so the rear squats - or I probably would not get around the cormer without going bush.
It usually takes about 5 laps to start riding properly after I have not ridden regularly. My brain starts working again - that stuff is always there somwhere.
When I started racing the Seeley 850 in 2002, I had not raced since about 1979. I still won a couple of races. Pain is like a laser writing a DVD.

Ashley, a featherbed frame was good in the 1950s. A Seeley frame was excellent in the 1960s. In the 1950s 50 BHP was a lot of power. Seeley frames did well until the 1970s. A Z900 Kawasaki has a lot of horsepower. A good Seeley Commando can beat them.
The one which I do not believe is PW winning a race which had TZ750 Yamahas in it, with a Commando-engined bike.

When I built my Seeley 850, for me a G50 motor was out of reach, but they might not be out of reach these days. It is an easy build.

acotrel said:

My bike is still in a few pieces, but it is nothing which cannot be fixed in a couple of hours mucking around. However I have a problem with Winton Raceway in getting track time, these days. I used to be friends with the CEO there. With the car club which owns the circuit, while my friend was alive, he was the best man on the planet, now he is dead, he is a bastard. In the last 12 months, there have been two motorcycle race meetings. Prior to each meetimg there has been one practice day. Both meetings were back in May when it was pissing rain. In a few days time, the new year will begin and there might be a new calendar. For the past 3 years there has been no calendar due to the pandemic. Prior to that I was busy for about 10 years with rellies leaving the planet. The last time I raced was just after my mother died.
This coming year should be different. I will have to work my way around the car club, but I have something to say to them which they might not necessarily like, but will understand.
I sincerely intend to do some on-board video, if only to document what the Seeley 850 does in corners. To me it is an achievement. I never thought anyone could ride a motorcycle into a corner in the middle of the road and then accelerate full blast from beginning to end of the corner, all the way around it. Sensibly, you would not even try to do it. One thing I must always do, is brake just before the corner and then accelerate hard, so the rear squats - or I probably would not get around the cormer without going bush.
It usually takes about 5 laps to start riding properly after I have not ridden regularly. My brain starts working again - that stuff is always there somwhere.
When I started racing the Seeley 850 in 2002, I had not raced since about 1979. I still won a couple of races. Pain is like a laser writing a DVD.

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You haven't raced from 1979 to 2002, that's 23 years of not riding and now it's been 10 years since you been out so really add it together 33 years without riding and only track time at that, that's not really much ride time at all, but the way you talk it seemed you were doing more track time but not really.
I have been on the road and have always had a bike on the road for 50 years now, my Norton was an everyday rider in most of it's 46 years of ownership only off the road for 2 1/2 build to the Featherbed frame and a few times for major upgrades, but I also owned a few other bikes in between rebuild/upgrades when it was off the road, so never been off the road except for 3 left knee injuries (4months at a time ) and 2 license suspensions (3 month each) so 18 months in 50 years of riding and without being on a bike was hard for me to handle, I been riding dirt and British bikes since I was 15 years old and I have a lot of knowledge and experience, I know how to push my Featherbed hard because I have owned and ridden it for so long and its built for great handling with everything on it tucked in and pegs are up high, I have never scraped it except when I have laid it down, once or twice my own mistake pushing the tyres past their limits and a few lay downs from avoiding turning cars in front of me.
Having dirt bike experience and road experience you learn a lot on how a bike handles and yes at 64 years old I still ride a Honda CRF450X dirt bike, riding hard and fast in the bush has helped me be a good rider on the road and having a bike that handles good, brakes good when needed (as when riding I hardly use my brakes except for coming to a stop) and having the torque and power to get out of trouble as well fun lol.
I have spent a lot of track days on my old Commando as well the Featherbed frame in my younger days as the old Lakeside raceway is not far from me and track days only cost $20 for a full day back in the 70s early 80s, that where I learned how the Featherbed handled so good, so I think I have enough experience to know how to ride my bikes or any other bike with a bit of ride time in the saddle, I am a sensible rider don't do silly thing in traffic or in the city/suburbs I do most of my ride times out up in the twisties where I have most of my play time or in the bush and every road going British bike I always upgrade the suspension to make them all handle great and run good rubber on the wheels, I love my Norton and how well it handles but the 1200 Thruxton handles great and would eat the Norton in a high speed run, both bikes are fun to ride and most of my ride times are now on the Thruxton it's so good.

Ashley

In the Scandinavian circus, a Seeley G50, a Petty Manx and a Honda are the fastest in the 750 class. In the 500 class it's a Seeley G50, a Petty Manx and a Paton.
All of these win races.
It all depends on which rider is fastest for the day.

I do not think a Paton 500 would be a nice bike to race. I would have liked to have built a Seeley G50, but I could not rationalise spending that much money on a motor when Jawa speedway motors were so cheap. The problem was, with a Jawa motor in the Seeley frame, there would never be a race class in which I could have used it.
What does a Summerfield G50 motor cost these days ? In Australia, we can buy locally made copies, but the castings have usually been made without allowance for shrinkage. I know a guy who bought one, and found the flywheels were off-centre in the cases - oil-drag kept it from being fast. He had to set to, and re-machine the cases.
To my mind, the Seeley G50 is the ultimate race bike. It is perfect in almost every way. If the British were smart, they would manufacture the Seeley Condor, as a dual purpose bike. All that is needed is a decent race class for 500cc four-stroke singles and twins, and it could provide entry level into road racing., as well as a bike for road use.

I actually love riding my Seeley 850, but it has never been what I really wanted to race. In Australia, historic racing is the go, and with the young guys 'bigger is always better'. The best racing we ever had wasc when we had capacity classes and graded races. But back in those days we would wait all weekend for two rides. My problem is, there is no way I could ever get my Seeley 850 onto a start line beside bevel Ducatis, and nobody bothers to race those anyway. If I race these days, it would be against big four-cylinder superbikes, which means nothing to me. There is no sense of achievement involved. A good bevel Ducati 900 is worth beating, if you have a Seeley 850. It makes me sad that for me, that is never going to happen.

If you can beat this, you are really going :

With a bike which really handles, you do not need as much horsepower.

Mike40M said:

In the Scandinavian circus, a Seeley G50, a Petty Manx and a Honda are the fastest in the 750 class. In the 500 class it's a Seeley G50, a Petty Manx and a Paton.
All of these win races.
It all depends on which rider is fastest for the day.

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Thanks for posting this. It pretty much confirms what I have been trying to say. When I race, it is always about getting a sense of achievement rather than just getting a trophy. I know the comparisons. In the early 1960s, Allpowers A grade was mainly Manx Nortons, and Arthur Pimm had a 1000cc Norvin. He won a few races at Phillip Island, but not many. I watched people such as Tom Phillis, Ron Toombs, Steve Oszko , Ken Rumble, Trevor Pound and Bill Pound - all were faster with Manx Nortons on most circuits, than the 1000cc Norvin.
I once raced against Steve Oszko in the first ever historic race in 1973. He had not raced for about 8 years. I blitzed them all off the start, then when I was around the back of the circuit, I backed off to make a race of it. Steve Oszko flashed past me, then I caught up and raced wheel to wheel with him. I could not beat him, but just being able to getup beside him in a race, was an achievement in itself.
My Seeley 850 is quick for what it is, but one of those old riders on a Seeley G50 would be quicker.

Think these Mitesse's being designed for the G 50 ( like a P II ) are designed for a Comando injun .



cept THAT's the frame yer want .


Backter Seely , where does Kirby fit in , was it the precognitor ,








The orrible little sozooki's copied the 7R frame . the T 250 anyway .