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Glen,
I have admired your work throughout this project.I am also a carpenter myself.Just wondering what your thoughts
on the Vincent that is in the new Cycle-World.That bike is beautiful to look at,but I do not know what it would be
like to take out on a 200 mile day.
Again my compliments!!
YING
 
Thanks Ying

I havent looked closely at that bike, which, from memory, is a Black Lightning. The owner appears to have made some decorative changes to it, not a lot more than that.
The members on the Vincent forum are quite upset with the changes he has made, although they would also be upset with my build if I sacrificed Rapide engine #38 in order to make the bike. Engine #38 will go back into its original cycle parts next winter when I assemble the new 1360 Prince/Vincent engine.

A Black Lightning, if it truly is a Black Lightning,is a very rare beast, so I can see why some get upset with alterations to one of those.
Quite likely it is not oneof the 30 or so factory Lightnings built. There are more fake Ligtnings out there than real ones!

And I agree, it looks like 50 miles would be enough for the day on that seat. No worse than the origianl Lightnings, they were an out and out race bike with a seat like a small plank.

Im hoping this bike Ive built will be good for some long distance runs. The Vincent road bikes such as the Black Shadow and Rapide make very nice long haul touring bikes. The high torque engine combined with tall gearing, 3000rpm at 70mph, seems to be a combo that makes for a real mile gobbler, as the magazines from the past would say.

Glen
 
The electrical turned out to be a lot more work than anticipated. My friend Tony Cording thinks the cowl wiring looks like spaghetti. I didn't take a photo of whats inside the headlight, it looks more like vermicelli with about 60 wires or so, many of them tiny, especially the headlight /tach wiring.

The wire was provided free of charge by another friend whose occupation is building hotrods. He gets wiring kits in prelabelled wire. It is done by ink stamp, every three inches along the insulation. It is generally a bit heavier than needed for the electrical loads on a motorcycle, but very nice stuff. The pieces I used are from his leftovers, offcuts from a foot to maybe ten feet long.

The disconnects are auto stuff too, Pico Weather Pack sealed type. They are a bit bulky but fit the situation, in that I only have about 1/2" height under the seat for the three of the couplers. These couplers are wide but just less than 1/2" thick. There are three additional smaller weather pack couplers tucked in beside the battery, not fully visible in the photo. So the tray slides out for access to fuse boxes and other electrical items then the couplers come away if the tray is to be separated from the bike. The harnesses stay with the bike but the seat pan can be removed easily if needed, just a couple of zip ties to cut and the harnesses come free.

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I decided not to do the usual "one fuse does all" British bike wiring job, so there is a bit of a maze of wiring. The larger 8 circuit fuse box is energized with the key switch in the first position, both it and a second six circuit fuse box are energized with the key switch in the second position. This way the ignition is separated from the Alton output, which if connected to a common fuse box will keep the engine alive after the battery is disconnected thru key switch. In other words, you cannot shut the bike off with the key unless these items are separated.
It's a more complicated wiring job than the one or two fuse job would be, but those wiring setups can make you crazy when it comes time to track a problem.
I have one Rapide that kept blowing its single 20 amp fuse. Sometimes it wouldn't blow the fuse, it would drain the battery instead. It has coil ignition so once the battery is dead, you and the bike are probably coming home in the back of a pickup truck.
The previous owner quit riding it because no one was able to track the problem and riding it was a nightmare. Prior to all of this, in about 1984 he had our local expert do a much needed and very extensive stem to stern mechanical redo of the bike from crankpin out, with a gazillion major and minor parts replaced. The bike was also rewired at that time, but the one fuse electrical wiring job was the downfall. When I got the bike it was suggested to me that the Lucas generator was likely the root cause of the problem . I replaced that with a Chinamo and for awhile thought the problem was solved, but it happened again and again. One night while out riding (always close to home and preferably uphill at this point!!)I noticed a spark coming from the headlight switch.
That had been the problem for 20 years, but was intermittent and very difficult to track without separate fuses. Had the headlight circuit been on its own fuse, it would have been a relativley easy find, plus it would not have left the previous owner stranded on the road again and again. So he would have had 20 years of enjoyment from his newly rebuilt bike instead of twenty years and just 550 miles of agony!
The upside is that without the one fuse wiring job and the electrical problem it masked, the previous owner would never have sold me the bike!

Anyway, I'm sure there are improvements that could be made on this wiring job, but I did spend a long time looking at the situation to figure out a good way to do it so that the wire is pretty much out of view and yet things can come apart quickly if necessary.

A couple more things to do and then its ready. Finished weight is 172 lbs rear 178lbs front, so 350 total. Dont know why its so light, 40 pounds lighter than a gsxr 1000., even with that big Vincent lump in there.

If there is some decent weather next week I'll give it a run.

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Looking great, but it came together way too fast. It's not fair to the rest of us :mrgreen:

Where did you get your oil cap from. I am in the process of making an oil tank and can't find a decent cap. I need it in aluminum.
 
Thanks Wolfie

I got the al. caps from a UK supplier whose name escapes me at the moment. Later I saw that Walridge Motors in Ontario has them for about the same price or maybe a bit more but including the threaded rings. The company in the UK did not have the rings. I made some since I needed one in SS and one in al., no doubt the supplied items are in al.

Glen
 
I have to echo bwolfie here... "Looking great, but it came together way too fast. It's not fair to the rest of us"... :) Just plain OUTSTANDING !! I'll be looking forward to hearing about your riding impressions too. Cj
 
Thanks Paul and CJ. It actually took longer than it looks like by this thread. About half of the work was done last year in February and March, the rest was done from about Jan 1 this year on.

Will give it a thrashing this week if the weather is decent and will report my findings here!

Glen
 
Congratulations on a superb build and thankyou for sharing.
I have one query and that is where in the spine oil tank are you taking the oil supply from as I cannot see the small dropped oil reservoir that is fitted under the rear of the spine on many egli frames to prevent oil starvation on long downhill runs.
Ando
 
Thanks Ando

The oil supply comes from the back end of the tank, same as on a standard Vincent.

I havent seen the dropped resevoir on any of the Eglis Ive looked at. The tank I have basically replicates the original Vincent spine/oil tank, except the Vincent is rectangular.
There is 3 litres of oil in it allowing for a little space at the top. The steepest long Mountain grades in Canada or the US that I have encountered are 8 percent, which still leaves lots of oil over the supply connection.
Of course, if one lets the oil get too low there might be a problem. My speedometer has a connection for a low oil warning light. It requires a probe to be installed in the tank, might do that at some point.

Btw, got it running yesterday but did not ride it with wet snow coming down. The kickstart lever is from a Honda 750. I resplined it to fit the Vincent because the stock Vincent kicker doesnt fit well with this bike. I found out yesterday that it will need to be lengthened as well, just not quite enough leverage to easily turn over the 1000cc Vincent.

I think the high compression 1360 cc motor will probably be electric start only, not going to try kicking that thing!
Glen
 
Glen
the photo below is of an egli 750 honda frame and the dropped reservoir is easy to see. I know that honda 4s did have problems downhill. They would start to suck air as all the oil moved to the front so I assumed the Vincent may be the same. I have to admit I have never seen an egli vincent frame, only egli hondas. Enjoy the new bike. I know I would
Ando
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interesting.
The Vincent oil pump is pretty pathetic by modern standards in that it only moves a tiny amount of oil. It could be that the Hondas experienced a problem due to much greater oil flow of the pump.

Even with the tiny bit of oil the Vincents pump, they seem to run forever with riders routinely clocking 80 to 100,000 miles between rebuilds. The engine in my Project bike has had a few rebuilds and according to club records has close to half a million miles on it!
I suppose the relatively low RPM helps and it could be that the Vincent engine designer, Phil Irving, got the oil to all the right places.


Glen
 
Interesting oil flow on downhill issues. I had my OIF designed in mind till this issue hit me. We've 11 % grades on main roads and triple that off pavement. I made Peel spine drain at both ends. At least Vincents are made to oil for wheelies ok : )
 
With 3 lires of oil in there it is impossible to uncover the drain on hills, the only way to get it fully uncovered would be to ride off a cliff!

I think the sump on the Honda frame may have been needed more for a high volume pump- or it may just be a sump/sludge trap.
You should see what comes out of 65 year old high mile Vincent upper frame members!
For that reason Ive included a cleanout bung in the Egli/Glenli spine.

Glen
 
I'm pensive of seeing what comes out oil in frames, so will be pickling the insides of Ms Peel soon as the last welding done. There are stronger more permanent agents for this than plain phos. acid, which is still in the right direction.
 
Took it out for a first run today. The roads dried off and I had just a short time, but it was a very pleasant 50 miles or so.


The 1360 engine is definitely not a requirement. With this Shadow tuned Rapide engine in there it just flies.

The handling can best be described as taught. It takes very little effort to go round corners quickly.

As long as you are moving at 50 mph or more, which happens very quickly after releasing the clutch. it is a supremely comfortable ride. Below 50 there is a little weight on the wrists.

I haven't got the back brake functioning just yet, but the front is more than enough. If desired, it's easy enough to lift the back wheel in the air when stopping. Why does my Vincent with the good stoppers lock the front wheel but not lift the back tire whereas this bike will lift the back tire without locking the front wheel? I guess the answer must be in the increased traction of the front tire, lighter weight of the bike and some geometry thrown in.

I was totally unsure what to expect regarding vibration. By removing 110 pounds of material will there be less to soak up the vibes or will it, hopefully, be about the same? This engine in the Vincent cycle parts was pretty smooth to about 70 mph then got a little shaky around 75 but got better again at 80. Whether at 60 mph or 80 or in between, the mirrors shook on the highway. It wasn't so awful that you could not see what was happening behind, but the mirrors were not dead still like they are on the rubber mounted Commando 850.

For some strange reason, in this frame, there is virtually no vibration at any speed I have taken it to so far. If anything it is even smoother than the Commando.

Perhaps it is because the frame is quite stiff. Anyway, it adds to the comfort level of the ride.

It needs a few things fettled and then I can envision putting a lot of miles on it. It really does fit like a tailored suit.





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From what I have read, being able to do a "stoppy" has everything to do with the center of gravity of the bike being above or below the level of the front axle. Commandos have the crankshaft below the front axle and I assume that the entire center of gravity is around that low as well. Going to smaller front wheels makes it harder to get the center of gravity below the axle but I would not say that corner handling is adversely affected by that necessarily.
 
Yes hi CoG makes for stoppies while lo CoG makes for better stopping. I'm most pleased with my Commando stopping over my modern stoppie prone balloon tire SV650 or Ninja. Do some stopping distance/time tested to see stoppies ain't really the fastest way to slow. Let out this big boys clutch for instant full committal to flight!
 
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