4 valve Norton Manx

nickguzzi said:
However the Manx inspired Vanwall did.

"The 2.0 L engine was designed by Norton engineer Leo Kuzmicki, and was essentially four Manx[1] single-cylinder 498 cc (30.4 cu in) (86.1 mm × 85.6 mm (3.39 in × 3.37 in)) engines with a common waterjacket, cylinder head (a copy of the Norton's) and valvetrain,[1] with induction by four AMAL motorcycle carburetors."
from Wiki
Click to expand...

+1
The pistons, valves E.T.C; I believe would all fit from the 500 Manx :!:
 
Hi
Was it the Daimler Dart v8 engine that was Goldstar based?
I also remember the story of an F1 designer telling the factory boss that they couldn't do a curved radiator & the boss sending him photos of the Yamaha from the paddock with? a curved radiator. Lots of brilliant people in the bike world.

Chris
 
And Leo was the Polish war refugee/ Janitor at Nortons, who, in the late 40s, taught Norton what a squish band could do for engine performance. It is likely that the squish bands in our Commandos are a hold over from Leo's improvements to the Manx combustion chamber.

Glen
 
There is an interview out on the net somewhere where Leo's widow mentions that Leo was directly hired at Nortons as an engineer,
and that story of the janitor seems to have appeared from no-where....

??
 
The Vanwall engine was a four cylinder of 2490 cc total swept volume, and comprised a cylinder bore of 96 mm with an 86 mm stroke.
There used to be parts of one on display in the Donnington Park museum.
 
The Vanwall history says the earlier version was 2 litres,
but it was soon punched out to 2.5 litres to meet new rules.
And go faster ?

Anyone got a pic inside one, that would be interesting to see.
Watercooling would somewhat alter the externals ?
 
Rohan said:
The Vanwall history says the earlier version was 2 litres,
but it was soon punched out to 2.5 litres to meet new rules.
And go faster ?

Anyone got a pic inside one, that would be interesting to see.
Watercooling would somewhat alter the externals ?
Click to expand...

I've seen photos of the Vanwall engine - looked air cooled to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on_e7j8hQO4
 
The 2.5 litre was watercooled.

Apparently there was a 2.3 litre along the way too,
don't know what it was....
 
I have a photo of the Vanwall cylinder head less the cambox. It is water cooled and looks very skinny by comparison with the Manx air cooled head. In my photo each cylinder had twin spark plugs.

If only I could get this photobucket worked out I could post a picture, (also a shot of the Molnar 4 valver). I'll keep trying
 
test for photos

4 valve Norton Manx
 
Post for Snotzo - he still cant get his photos to work

4 valve Norton Manx
4 valve Norton Manx



Molnar 4 valve again form Snotzo
 
Thanks John for helping with the pics.

The Molnar 4v looks like a 2v from the outside. This conforms to the regulations re external appearance, but the valve spring covers are dummies, the four valves are deep within the head casting at half the 2v included angle. Cooling has become a major issue. One of the old tuners, Steve Lancfield, went to great trouble to mount his cambox on spacers so some air could flow over the centre of the 2v head where a few rudimentary fins were located.
 
acotrel said:
I've seen photos of the Vanwall engine - looked air cooled to me.
Click to expand...

Air cooled :!: are you serious :?:

From ;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanwall

The 2.0 L engine was designed by Norton engineer Leo Kuzmicki, and was essentially four Manx[1] single-cylinder 498 cc (30.4 cu in) (86.1 mm × 85.6 mm (3.39 in × 3.37 in)) engines with a common waterjacket, cylinder head (a copy of the Norton's) and valvetrain,[1] with induction by four AMAL motorcycle carburetors.[1]
 
So is the 4 valve 500 Manx I saw in the late 1960s or early 1970s claiming 60 HP illegal in classic period racing?
 
The 4 valve norton back in the 60's/70's was built by Sid Mullarney, with guidance from Bill Lacey, who made certain Cosworth parts available for examination in the design stage. Drawings were done by Tony Monk, but the engine was eventually completed and raced with great success by Bob Newby. The Mullarney original was a 350, but subsequently a 500 engine was built and was permitted under the then existing rules.

Some interest has been expressed in building replicas of the Mullarney 500, but all representations have been turned down, citing the rule that if only one machine of its type was made, then only that machine may be used. While this rule is still enforced in Classic racing, the Isle of Man run under their own rules, and machines such as the MV3, Paton and Molnar4v are apparently welcomed.

While Andy Molnar's 4 valver has an incredibly good external likeness to an original 2v Manx, the Mullarney engine top end looked very different.
 
That Molnar 4V has some serious downdraft to the carb, hasn't it....

Thanks for the Vanwall head pic.
Anyone looked underneath at the business side of things ?
 
jseng1 said:
So is the 4 valve 500 Manx I saw in the late 1960s or early 1970s claiming 60 HP illegal in classic period racing?
Click to expand...

To turn this question on its head -
The cutoff for classic racing in many parts is 1963,
so if built post 1963, why should it be legal ?
 
The cut off date for the class in which the Mullarney Norton raced was 1972, and in the UK is generally accepted as the cutoff date for most, if not all of the other classic classes. Maybe SteveA will comment on this point as he is still an active participant, (and correct me if I am in error).

The underside of the Vanwall head was photographed at the same time as I did the top, but by some cock up with the flash I managed to get a poor photo. I'll have another look at it, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to be any good. The photo's were taken some years ago and the parts may no longer be on display.
 
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