Norton trouble

[Fast Eddie]

https://www.bikeexif.com/triton-norton-961

I thought this may be the answer but it could be quite expensive given the amount of time put into it, but for those with engineering skills could well be a viable option

That was a cool thing to do back then, take the under powered engine out of the overweight chassis, tune the nuts off it and have a cool, fast, modern cafe racer!

The problem today is that the Thruxton range is better in all aspects, so instead of building a stronger, faster Norton, you’d be building an inferior Thruxton !

 

[Fast Eddie]

View attachment 14207 And now a word from our sponsor.

Surely, with all the negative news that’s coming out about Garner and his shenanigans, whatever happens to Norton, he’s finished ?!

 

[Voodooo]

Surely, with all the negative news that’s coming out about Garner and his shenanigans, whatever happens to Norton, he’s finished ?!

I was surprised he even responded to me. Shocking.
I’m going to ask him if I can still buy spare parts lol.

 

[oldmikew]

Better to have manufacturers in Asia than criminals in Britain.

absolutely

 

[ZFD]

That was a cool thing to do back then, take the under powered engine out of the overweight chassis, tune the nuts off it and have a cool, fast, modern cafe racer!

The problem today is that the Thruxton range is better in all aspects, so instead of building a stronger, faster Norton, you’d be building an inferior Thruxton !

Basically the same problem that "classic" Tritons had after a while- the 650SS and 750 Atlas engine were better than the Triumph engines of the era and capacity, and the building of Tritons became pointless and has been ever since.

 

[Triton Thrasher]

the 650SS and 750 Atlas engine were better than the Triumph engines of the era and capacity, and the building of Tritons became pointless and has been ever since.

Should only the fastest bike on the market be built and sold?

 

[Eljahara]

The 961 Commando should have sold in bucket loads - it was/is an excellent old school style motorcycle which is let down by the electronics package, resulting in reliability concerns. The majority of issues can be traced back to the ECU and EFI systems

Poor components (sensors, leads, integrated units) in early models - see Richard7 input on replacing with genuine components from established companies
Lamda sensors creating errors in the ECU leading to rough running
EFI not efficiently delivering fuel to each cylinder - see iWilson’s threads for this and Irken
Idle engine speed too high - directly traced back to the ECU function
ECU resetting when bike is cold as a result of feedback from the instrument electronics
Error codes showing when no error is present ....
These were reported by customers from the very first models but continued to reappear right up to the current crop of 961 models.
Yes the engine is based on an older model but other manufacturers of twins are not getting the range of issues from their electronic packages.

 

[Bernhard]

Which is why I would never buy one. As far as I'm concerned having components like an ECU will just make awkward for a guy like me who would repair his own bikes, I believe in the phrase " keep it simple stupid "

 

[L.A.B.]

LF Harris continued to make the old T140 under licence until about 1985.

Production began in 1985. Ended March 1988.

 

[oldbeezer]

I also posted this in the "to keep or not to keep" (forgive me Willy) thread. It might be a solution to the ecu issues.
www.emeraldm3d.com

 

[Eljahara]

I also posted this in the "to keep or not to keep" (forgive me Willy) thread. It might be a solution to the ecu issues.
www.emeraldm3d.com

A pity Norton did not look for something similar!
During the 2 year warranty period customers were locked into the ECU provided with the bike otherwise the warranty was invalid - not good if something mechanical went wrong.
I got rid of mine because of the electronic issues - cutting out twice and leaving me stranded, EML illuminated twice - bike returned to Norton as advised and finally the ECU cutting all power and electrics whilst at speed thereby putting my life at risk. It was “fixed” by being replaced by the same model of ECU but I never felt it was going to be safe and rode it less, hence I sold it.

 

[Bernhard]

The 961 Commando should have sold in bucket loads - it was/is an excellent old school style motorcycle which is let down by the electronics package, resulting in reliability concerns. The majority of issues can be traced back to the ECU and EFI systems

Poor components (sensors, leads, integrated units) in early models - see Richard7 input on replacing with genuine components from established companies
Lamda sensors creating errors in the ECU leading to rough running
EFI not efficiently delivering fuel to each cylinder - see iWilson’s threads for this and Irken
Idle engine speed too high - directly traced back to the ECU function
ECU resetting when bike is cold as a result of feedback from the instrument electronics
Error codes showing when no error is present ....
These were reported by customers from the very first models but continued to reappear right up to the current crop of 961 models.
Yes the engine is based on an older model but other manufacturers of twins are not getting the range of issues from their electronic packages.

Question to anyone, what is the Retail price of a 961 ECU?

 

[Eljahara]

My wife just asked me a question, I didn’t have an answer (not unusual for men I know!)
“If people have paid in full for motorcycles from Norton, why can’t the administrators call back the stock from dealers and give those people the chance to say whether they want the bike or not?”
I am sure there must be a good reason - do dealers pay for bikes before they sell to customers?

 

[comet]

Question to anyone, what is the Retail price of a 961 ECU?

I don't know about the Omex ones, but a new SC ECU (Delta 400) would be £780. Or they will unlock an existing SC ECU for around £300.

 

[Eljahara]

I don't know about the Omex ones, but a new SC ECU (Delta 400) would be £840. Or they will unlock an existing SC ECU for around £300.

Unfortunately it isn’t just the ECU, mine had two replacement throttle position sensors and Lamda sensors replaced at service -others have had issues with head temp sensors, sensors shorting out due to wiring lying in water trap under air filter ....


It’s all academic now, it’s probably more cost effective to change what you need to and make it the bike it should be

 

[Madnorton]

View attachment 14207 And now a word from our sponsor.

Yet more obvious from Capt calamity garner, of course we know there is more going on behind the scenes, the TM will be wanted by someone. I bet he wishes he took Mahindra's offer in 2016. The bikes could have been built and delivered last year. With 4 years wasted and Mahindra could pick up all the pieces for far less than they could have paid out for some of them.

 

[Murph]

Yet more obvious from Capt calamity garner, of course we know there is more going on behind the scenes, the TM will be wanted by someone. I bet he wishes he took Mahindra's offer in 2016. The bikes could have been built and delivered last year. With 4 years wasted and Mahindra could pick up all the pieces for far less than they could have paid out for some of them.

 

[Voodooo]

Which is why I would never buy one. As far as I'm concerned having components like an ECU will just make awkward for a guy like me who would repair his own bikes, I believe in the phrase " keep it simple stupid "

Than I take it you still drive a early 1980s car? Because most cars prior to 85 or so were still carb.

 

[Bernhard]

Than I take it you still drive a early 1980s car? Because most cars prior to 85 or so were still carb.

Don't even have a tin box at the moment.

 

[Murph]

Here’s a thought- Crowd funding campaign for Cootes Norton. Richard and Dave have already done so much for the 961 on their own dime- repair manuals, research on sensors, bearings, etc, made specialized tools, numerous contributions to this forum with improvement ideas, technical support, offers to provide hands-on teaching, engine rebuilds, collaboration with CNW, the list goes on. Now they’re talking about repair how-to videos. I wouldn’t even have bought mine if it wasn’t for them. All of that costs money and time. It’s unbelievable to me that Norton didn’t utilize and leverage that knowledge and commitment to the brand. They could have sold many more 961’s in North America. I plan to keep mine forever and would be happy to contribute to a Cootes Norton campaign. How many other 961 owners on this forum would also be willing?