New Member

"Aware of the benefits of alu, just hoping to hear about any sporty experience with the narrow steel setup. "


My experience is, I read/listen to people wax on poeticly about handling, but 98 out 100 of them couldn't tell if they had 15psi in the front tire or 30.



So far, no pretty Norton has passed me & made me want lighter rims.


JMWO

When I brought my 74 Commando new the chrome on the rims started to lift off the rear wheel rim and had rust under the chrome, was replaced on warranty but after the warranty ran out the front rim started to do the same and a few years later the replacement rear one did the same again, my first job of leaving school I worked at a chroming business and what happened with my rims was bad preparation from the manufactures.
So in 1980 when I started the conversion to the Featherbed frame I went the same stock size rims in Akront alloy rims in 19", what a differences in handling with the alloy rims and too this day they still look as good as the day they were laced up to my hubs, in 1980 the Akront rims cost $90 each and cost me $80 for new spokes and laced up to my hubs, not bad , but money wise was lower them days, how much would it cost these days.
But going alloy you won't be disappointed well worth it in the long run and make your bike handle a bit better as well, in the sales brochures/posters I got when buying my Norton Commando new it said the Commando's were design for 19" wheels and the major factor in for the whole design of the Commando.
I still have them poster up on my shed wall.

Ashley

acotrel said:

Most Commandos probably have a seat for a pillion passenger. If you do not wind up the suspension, do they handle better when you carry a passenger ? - Or do they oversteer ?

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? Wow.

possm said:

I am also old school, if the rims are not rusty and in good condition why replace them your bike looks very original, re tyres if you stay with 19" originally your bike came out with 410x19 front and rear but my experience a slightly narrower tyre on the front is an advantage 2 options that work for me [if available in your country] are- 100/90x19 Dunlop TT100GP front with a 410x19 TT100 rear or 325x19 Avon roadrider front with a 100/90x19 Roadrider rear, I have measured the width of the 100/90x19 Roadrider which is very close to the same width as the 410x19 TT100.

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Thanks everyone,

possm, Old School is probably the key here. Rims are in good shape, it's just me with that old 18" R and 19" front, one steel the other aluminum (rear) . I know this is very common due to tire availability, it's silly but it just bugs me, (a little). The bike is quite original, and I agree why spend extra money when not needed. this is what led to me seeking other's experience. If it is to be 19" the plan is to go 100/90-19 R, 90/90-19 F, (I'm aware of the wear issues on rear). If 18" is chosen, well we all know the recommended choices. Thanks again

marshg246 said:

If the engine is a Combat, I would not use a 21T sprocket unless you'll be riding mostly at highway speeds. I recommend staying with 19T for Combats and general riding. If not riding around town much, then I would say 20T.

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Thanks, it is a Combat, (well I never stripped it down, god knows whats inside). Runs well and is a very healthy Kick. As I don't plan on stripping the motor down the reason for the larger sprocket was to keep the RPM down a little, it will not be a city bike.

MichaelB said:

19 vs 18 debate goes on forever. I'm 'Old' school and prefer the 19's.
I have alloy's front and rear. The issue is, a dedicated 19" rear is not made.
They are univeral, just rotated different directions front and rear.
As a result the rear wears very quickly. I assume from the softer compund to be compatible with the front.
The 18" rear gives far more tire choices.
Very little talk about a 20" sprocket. Combat's like to rev.
Vernier Iso's. Only if necessary, as in old ones wore out. If measurements and ride are still in spec, leave them.
If they are bad replace with verniers.
Check all engine mount connections, 5 total on the cradle, 3 on rear, 2 on front.

My check list would be,
1. Leave 18" rear, replace front with matching alloy
2. 20" sprocket.
3. Adjust Iso's, double check all engine and Iso mounts.
4. Check swing arm for slop, proceed accordingly.
5. Replace rear engine breather with reed breather. CNW has one. Access may be an issue with Gear box in place.
6. Be aware of Layshaft bearing issue in Trans. A sign is kickstart rotates back while accelerating.

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Thanks for input, agree with the "old school" thought, (see above). I think I'll follow the Iso advice, as with the engine, if it needs attention, (or breaks), I'll deal with it. Read about those breather benefits.


All,
I have to chuckle a bit, as I am new to all of you, but as a long time lurker I "know" many of you. The reason for the change is the new intended use for this Bike. Not new to motorcycling, and not new to "vintage" bikes, (Guzzi's and Airheads mostly). From my youth I have always thought the Commando was a stunningly good looking motorcycle. When I found this one I snapped it up. I know this motorcycle is capable and deserves more than the "Cars and Coffee" runs of recent history. Other bikes are leaving the garage and this will be used as intended.


Thanks again, Great site

concours said:

"Aware of the benefits of alu, just hoping to hear about any sporty experience with the narrow steel setup. "


My experience is, I read/listen to people wax on poeticly about handling, but 98 out 100 of them couldn't tell if they had 15psi in the front tire or 30.



So far, no pretty Norton has passed me & made me want lighter rims.


JMWO

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Like this! Once had a guy ask me to look at his bike for a "handling Problem" He has 7PSI in the front tire.

In the old days tyre pressure was between 28/32 PSI but modern tyres these days run higher PSI, the compounds are so much different from back in the 70s, the tyres that came from the factory new was 410 Dunlop K81s back and front and they were made in England on the tyres, but after a few years I learned the bike steered into the corner better going to a 350/19 on the front, it was also harder to get the K81s made in England, they went to Spain as well Japan and a few other countries, depend where the tyre was made played a part in how well they griped on the road as well how many miles you got out of the rear.
But these days I stick to the Avon RR they works so much better than the old K81s, better grip, better grip in the wet and don't have the habit of following grooves in the road and I can get them right over to the edge when pushing the bike in the tight twisties without any lost of grip, had a few scares with the older K81 doing the same thing in my days and have lost it 2x with the K81s, they just lost their grip, have never had that problem with the Avon RR and can push them a lot harder as long as you run the right PSI, I run 36 PSI in the front and 38 PSI in the rear for best handling of my Norton, but every bike is different just got to experiment to find what works best for your own bike and style of riding.

Lookfar said:

Like this! Once had a guy ask me to look at his bike for a "handling Problem" He has 7PSI in the front tire.

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So many forget to check tyre pressure, I always check weekly when I use to ride every day but now it's every time I take the Norton out as it's no longer an everyday rider like it use too be.
Tube tyres will always lose pressure, some more than others.

Ashley

Lookfar said:

Thanks, it is a Combat, (well I never stripped it down, god knows whats inside). Runs well and is a very healthy Kick. As I don't plan on stripping the motor down the reason for the larger sprocket was to keep the RPM down a little, it will not be a city bike.

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Of course, I don't know how you'll ride it.

Everything else stock at 3500 RPM in 4th gear:
19T 54mph
20T 57mph
21T 59mph

Riding at lower than 3500 for long periods will probably be unpleasant (depending on ISO settings) and not good for the engine.

acotrel said:

Most bikes are designed to become stable when you brake. A dragging front brake will usually make the bike more difficult to steer around corners, because the front stays down. When the back is down or the front is up, life becomes easier. The forces involved are found by addition of vectors.

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Al who rides with dragging brakes, of course they will be difficult to steer if they were dragging, doh.
As well Al how long has it been since you been on a bike and you prob still riding with tyres that were made last century lol and not everyone here race on the track, you can't compare old tyres to the new modern tyres of today, the compounds are so much better these days.
Al you don't ride on the road, but you keep telling us all, how long has it been.
I say no more.

Wow nice stock ride enjoy what you have when it breaks replace.

I have a 23T on an 850 (with a single 34mk2 Amal! ). It accelerates well. It's quicker than my perfectly healthy CB750K6. I chuck both of them around on backroads, with vigour. I keep up with modern bikes. I really appreciate the long legs at higher speeds and I don't find I'm ever slipping the clutch at low speeds, until stop/start traffic, as you'd expect.

I'm not recommending 23T, but I don't think you'll regret 21T. What I really appreciated was sorting my front brake out. Better braking massively improved my confidence. Braided line, m/c set up, well bled and new pads.

Hey, here's another experience/opinion, worth exactly what you paid for it!

For my '73 850 I went through various changes in gearing/wheels/tires since I bought it in '06. I ended up happiest with OEM 19" steel rims/Avon 4.10s and a 19 tooth gear. Of course, if long distance touring is a major part of the plan, a taller gear is better. I'm pretty much a back road day-rider and like the stronger acceleration. So, as they say, it's all personal choice stuff!

You didn't ask about brakes but I agree with post 29 - you need to improve the front brake for SAFE modern riding. BUT I do not recommend sleeved master cylinders; I had two sleeved master cylinders fail. I went with a Brembo master cylinder from CNW and braided lines/stock front caliper/Ferodo platinum pads. CNW has an adapter than will allow the OEM switchgear to be mounted to the Brembo MC. The front brake now performs like a modern brake - both in feel and stopping power.

Good Luck!

possm, Old School is probably the key here. Rims are in good shape, it's just me with that old 18" R and 19" front, one steel the other aluminum (rear) . I know this is very common due to tire availability, it's silly but it just bugs me, (a little). The bike is quite original, and I agree why spend extra money when not needed. this is what led to me seeking other's experience. If it is to be 19" the plan is to go 100/90-19 R, 90/90-19 F, (I'm aware of the wear issues on rear). If 18" is chosen, well we all know the recommended choices. Thanks again

Sorry, I missed that you had an 18" Alloy rear. If you are considering 19" Avon Roadriders they produce both a 90/90x19 and a 325x19 both are the same width but the 325 has a higher profile so therefor fills the guard better I.e. you don't end up with te unsightly gap between guard and tyre.

When I rode motorcycles on public roads, I had silly friends, so handling came into the equation. Times have changed. These days is it is usually not possible to really apply yourself when you ride on the King's highway. In the olden days, the tyres were crap. I raced on triangulars and tyre pressures were around 22 PSI. The Battlaxe tyres on my Seeley 850 are good at 32 PSI. I have always had the habit of riding the bike to the speed at which I just began to lose grip. However I never really became aware of how my bike really handled. I did not realise that making the rear squat can make the bike steer in the direction it needs to go. When it does that, tyre grip is much less important. It does not make sense to accelerate hard when you are on a lean in a corner, but when you go into a corner too hot and you are running out of road, there is a point at which you must accelerate to get around. So you try to wash-off as much speed as you can, by trail braking. If the front stays down, you run-off faster. Drum brakes can drag, and sometimes they can heat-up and fade,or they can suddenly lock. I like front brakes which I can confidently apply with one finger. To my mind, my Seeley 850 is really stupid, but it is really easy to ride, and very fast in corners.

I suggest that when two-strokes came along, many of use believed they were perfection and so we started to copy them. A 500cc Manx could beat any 350cc Yamaha in a corner, but when the Yamaha was straight and pointed it disappeared into the distance. Arriving at the same point together at the same time became very difficult.. My problem with the Seeley 850 is I am afraid of hitting other bikes. If there is a bunch of riders all over the road ahead of me in a corner, I usually back-off unless there is room to go under them. Two-strokes and big four cylinder bikes are usually out wide at full lean.
In a minute my eyesight wil be good again, and my wife has told me I can race, as long as I am killed if I crash.

acotrel said:

I suggest that when two-strokes came along, many of use believed they were perfection and so we started to copy them. A 500cc Manx could beat any 350cc Yamaha in a corner, but when the Yamaha was straight and pointed it disappeared into the distance. Arriving at the same point together at the same time became very difficult.. My problem with the Seeley 850 is I am afraid of hitting other bikes. If there is a bunch of riders all over the road ahead of me in a corner, I usually back-off unless there is room to go under them. Two-strokes and big four cylinder bikes are usually out wide at full lean.
In a minute my eyesight wil be good again, and my wife has told me I can race, as long as I am killed if I crash.

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.

acotrel said:

I suggest that when two-strokes came along, many of use believed they were perfection and so we started to copy them. A 500cc Manx could beat any 350cc Yamaha in a corner, but when the Yamaha was straight and pointed it disappeared into the distance. Arriving at the same point together at the same time became very difficult.. My problem with the Seeley 850 is I am afraid of hitting other bikes. If there is a bunch of riders all over the road ahead of me in a corner, I usually back-off unless there is room to go under them. Two-strokes and big four cylinder bikes are usually out wide at full lean.
In a minute my eyesight wil be good again, and my wife has told me I can race, as long as I am killed if I crash.

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What relevance do your posts have to do with the OP's question on tyres and wheels?
You really should try to stop derailing other's threads!
Why not create your own thread about racing, if that's all you're interested in posting about?
Very tiresome!!

robs ss said:

What relevance do your posts have to do with the OP's question on tyres and wheels?
You really should try to stop derailing other's threads!
Why not create your own thread about racing, if that's all you're interested in posting about?
Very tiresome!!

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Al is living in the past, been so long since he has been on a bike, road and track, he hasn't rode a modern bike little lone a Commando on the road or track, but he seems to be an expert on them all, the OP is on about his Commando wheels, he is not dreaming about a Seeley sitting in the shed for over 11+ years.
Lovely wife to come out and say, if you crash as long as you get killed.
I have been told by a few not to reply to his ramblings, but Al must be thick skin as he don't seem to take a hint, it's a broken record Al.

Back to the thread I be going to new 19" alloy rims, having mis match wheels don't look right or seeing he has a 18" alloy rear wheel at lease match the front wheel to the rear wheel, to me the alloy rims look so much better as well feel better on the road than steel rims, but that's my opinion.
Glad I brought my Akront rims back in 1980, even when they look dull they still look good.

Ashley

Stephen Hill said:

Are you replacing the tires because they are worn, or because they are 10 years old?
Depending how the bike was stored, the tires might be perfectly serviceable.
Lots of different opinions on this.
I just watched Allen Millyard's video on his Velocette twin where he casually mentions (at 4:25) that the rear tire was bought second hand in 1979 and is still perfect because of how it was stored.

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AHEM. One of our club members put his wife in the hospital after a blowout on an elderly tire. Don't push your luck. Get new tires and if you don't want to trash your 1970's original tires, hang them on the wall.

Is a 10 year old tire elderly? Discuss.

Stephen Hill said:

Is a 10 year old tire elderly? Discuss.

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Yes. I’ll let it go on my cars, but not on my motorcycles. ( bicycles also) Never. Rubber age hardens, and I want those 2 small contact patches at their best. Even on my touring bikes I bought the best softer sport touring tires. I excepted the wear/expense for performance and safety. Even if your not dragging knees, remember tires stop the bike, not just the brakes.

Lookfar said:

Yes. I’ll let it go on my cars, but not on my motorcycles. ( bicycles also) Never. Rubber age hardens, and I want those 2 small contact patches at their best. Even on my touring bikes I bought the best softer sport touring tires. I excepted the wear/expense for performance and safety. Even if your not dragging knees, remember tires stop the bike, not just the brakes.

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I agree. My 2011 Mercedes E350 has its original tires and has under 50k miles. If one of them blows is not even a big deal (Michelin run-flat). No way I would ride a motorcycle with 13-year-old motorcycle tires and 13-year-old tubes!