HMS Commando vs USS Harley Davidson

seaguy · Feb 3, 2011

I hear the TM mikuni has solved the top end lack over the VM but who can say. I posted asking about TM jet configurations and only got two responses so I guess That might still be up in the air?

JimR · Feb 3, 2011

bwolfie said:
JimR said:

You're already the winner. He's riding a sportster and you have a commando. Who cares if it goes up a hill better. Its still a H-D and will never be anything else or anything special. You're bike is a Norton Commando and that is special. I'd rather ride a crappy looking commando than great looking and performing H-D anyday.

Click to expand...

+1, and Harley pays my mortgage. My wife works for Harley.

In this case I'd side with Harley. You can't get too far from what pays the mortgate.

bwolfie · Feb 3, 2011

Harley paid for her MC liscense. I went out and got her a Yamaha XS 360. She thinks it's cute. And it's paid for.

willh · Feb 3, 2011

I've ridden 883s and they're slow. Renew your Commando and gear low and it should leave 883s behind.
I've owned a 2000 1200 Sportster Sport, (bought new in 2000), with air box, pipes, jetting , ignition, stock-(double plug heads, lumpier cams, higher compression), etc. The 1200 had very nice thrust,( topped out at 130MPH) and good road manners but was heavy. 19 tooth on a good running Commando doesn't feel that far off for acceleration.

Sportster = town bike, low seat, lots of torque, rip through the gears and stop for the next light. Awful for open road speed work, my teeth felt loose and my ass and feet would go numb...

just my 2¢

crusadersports · Feb 5, 2011

Thanks to all who replied to this post: It's great to hear so many folk think an 850 Commando should show a clean pair of heels to an HD as I'd started to think I was just dreaming!

By the sounds of it, a newly rebulit motor in standard tune should be enough- this is great because I love the Commando just the way it is. I'm reluctant to tinker with the gearing for this reason. Has anybody verified the compression ratio of a MK III 850 on STD pistons? I reckon they must be pretty low as STD- it's the first British bike I've worked on with FLAT topped pistons! It's obvious they were in a pretty low sate of tune as STD.

Does the SS cam make so much difference?

My engine is tired- I know that as it smokes when I give it some welly- the problem being that mouthy mates make you want to do just that!

I do have peashooters. When I got the bike (10,000 miles, now 28,000) it had the o/e twin Concentrics but they were very worn -read like 33mpg- and the Mikuni has been brilliant in terms of economy- (55-60mpg), even so there was a definite lack of urge when the grip was twisted in anger. But I wouldn't go back to Amals.
crusadersports

cash · Feb 6, 2011

it's the first British bike I've worked on with FLAT topped pistons! It's obvious they were in a pretty low sate of tune as STD.

All 850s are fitted with flat tops it's because of the long stroke, and usually have compressions between 8.5:1 and 9:1 depending on what head and gasket arangement. A standard Mk3 would be near 8.5:1.
I would think your cam is worn as my mate's bog standard and at times smokey Mk3 goes like stink. (Valve guide seals popped off we reckon)

Cash

rocker1 · Feb 6, 2011

Hi Crusadersports

A good cam, RGM will build up and grind your old one to your chosen profile.

38mm Mikuni.

Boyer.

htown16 · Feb 8, 2011

My 2004 1200R, which came stock with Buell heads and cam, along with after-market exhaust and air cleaner puts out 70 hp and 80 ft#'s. Granted, its about a 100#'s heavier but I think in the quarter it would probably out run most Commando's. As far as handling the stock Harley suspension bits are junk. I replaced mine with Progressive stuff and added a fork brace. Handles like its on rails. Along with adding a decent seat, good brake pads and ss brake lines I love the thing now. Harley tries to market these as a lower price entry bike, but if you replace the cr*p parts they're quite a nice bike at least the R models which have front dual discs and mid position pegs. Unfortunately they discontinued that model.

willh · Feb 8, 2011

htown16 said:
My 2004 1200R, which came stock with Buell heads and cam, along with after-market exhaust and air cleaner puts out 70 hp and 80 ft#'s. Granted, its about a 100#'s heavier but I think in the quarter it would probably out run most Commando's. As far as handling the stock Harley suspension bits are junk. I replaced mine with Progressive stuff and added a fork brace. Handles like its on rails. Along with adding a decent seat, good brake pads and ss brake lines I love the thing now. Harley tries to market these as a lower price entry bike, but if you replace the cr*p parts they're quite a nice bike at least the R models which have front dual discs and mid position pegs. Unfortunately they discontinued that model.

Those are the same numbers H-D quoted for the 2000 1200 Sportster sport. I put mine on the scale when I had it, it was more than a hundred pounds heavier than my MKIII(minus E-start), can`t remember the exact amount, it`s been a few years. It had the "Sport" suspension and brakes and handled quite well within its limits. I liked mine but couldn`t live with the vibes.
The 883 on the other hand is slow, -300CCs, base model heads, etc compared to 1200R or S. 883 is about the same displacement-power as the Commando but big weight difference. Commando should take it in a drag.

htown16 · Feb 10, 2011

HD switched to a rubber mounted engine on the Sportster in 2004, really cut down the vibes and made longer trips possible. You can set at a red light and see the motor shaking all over the place but feel very little. Just 30+ years behind Norton.

Anglophile · Feb 10, 2011

I've always felt the 1200 Sportster was fast as shit -front tire easily lifted on a quick start but vibrated like a Triumph. Anyway, can't wait to try out my 750.

crusadersports · Feb 10, 2011

htown16 said:
HD switched to a rubber mounted engine on the Sportster in 2004, really cut down the vibes and made longer trips possible. You can set at a red light and see the motor shaking all over the place but feel very little. Just 30+ years behind Norton.

Thanks htown16. While I'm a great believer in 'each to their own' it's always seemed to me that HD have managed to make a virtue of the reason the old British industry failed- failure to modernise! How times change...

I just got some notes from RGM about their 920 kit- even they say a good 850 is not far off unless you want to spend loads on headwork, cam and bigger carbs to release the 920's potential. Sounds like a goer if I ever find a spare 850 motor I can go to town on- but for now think I'll just carefully rebuild what I've got and enjoy. I've just stripped the top end and found the l/h pot has a ring gap approaching 40 thou. No wonder it smoked... Can't find any oversize marks stamped on the pistons, only the letter 'B'. Anyone any thoughts? I'm assuming oversize pistons would say 0.20, 0.40 etc. I'm planning to renew the rings rather than go for a rebore and new pistons...

crusadersports

willh · Feb 10, 2011

htown16 said:
HD switched to a rubber mounted engine on the Sportster in 2004, really cut down the vibes and made longer trips possible. You can set at a red light and see the motor shaking all over the place but feel very little. Just 30+ years behind Norton.

Tried one out. I couldn't get over seeing the engine shake around like that. The word epileptic comes to mind :lol: Also more bothersome with the air-filter moving around near the knee. Worse than that is the rubber rear end, ( I don't care for the feel of Buells either). I preferred the solid mount engine chassis for it's "lighter weight" and crisper handling.
I still enjoyed the ride though, as I do on most Harleys I've tried. Just have to adjust the riding style to bike. They are fun, just not everyday fun for me.