Who else is running a voltage regulator?

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chopped850

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Just wondering if anyone else is running one in place of the rectifier and zener. My current set up is a Lucas stator/alternator, boyer electric ignition with box, voltage regulator and brand new wiring and battery. With the bike running and a meter on the batt it reads about 12.4 volts. Then giving it throttle it reads about 12.8 volts and doesn't rise to 13 and 14 volts. If I turn on the lights the batt reads 12.2 volts and with throttle only goes to 12.5 volts. Is this right? I'm not convinced the bike is trouble free. I called the guy at Fairspares where I bought the VR from and he told me because the batt is new it might not need to charge that high on the meter. I have searched the web for an answer but nothing found.
 
You should be getting a larger voltage rise than that. What size alternator have you got? Are you running resistor plugs, wires or caps? I had exactly the same symptoms on my Matchless G12 when I was running both resistor wires and caps. I had a new 3-phase SPARX alternator (220W) and regulator but wasn't getting much charging. About 12.5 volts like you describe. Boyer recommends 5 ohms somewhere in the circuit so make sure you are using only resistor caps and see if that helps. Proximity of the voltage regulator to the ignition wires seems to result in interference. Somehow the voltage box gets "fooled" (my extremely non-technical interpretation!!) into thinking there is more voltage that there is and reduces output accordingly. When I switched to solid copper wires and resistor caps, my battery charged just fine! Maybe someone with a more technical knowledge of electrical issues can clarify!!
 
I don't know what the w's are on the alt/stator. It say's Lucas on it. What caps and wires did you buy that took care of the problem?
 
The old type of rectifier took all the AC the alternator put out and converted it to DC needed or not. The excess was dumped as heat by the Zenor. Now the new type converts what is needed by the bike. So now the Zenor doesn't have to work so hard. I have noted that it is much harder with this set up to see that nice 14.2 or so cut off point were the Zenor kicks in like with the old systems but that don't mean it isn't working. It's not a regulator like on the old HD's in a metal box is it?
 
norbsa48503 said:
The old type of rectifier took all the AC the alternator put out and converted it to DC needed or not. The excess was dumped as heat by the Zenor. Now the new type converts what is needed by the bike. So now the Zenor doesn't have to work so hard. I have noted that it is much harder with this set up to see that nice 14.2 or so cut off point were the Zenor kicks in like with the old systems but that don't mean it isn't working. It's not a regulator like on the old HD's in a metal box is it?
Click to expand...

I replaced the zener and rectifier with the voltage regulator. I'm gonna unmount the VR and hang it as far away from the bike with a ground and see if that makes a difference.
 
Why don't you check the alternator output first? A regulator can not put out more than is put into it. I believe someone already suggested a weak rotor. An alternator output check will verify this.
 
Yeah, we will make the 1 ohm resistor and put it in line to test the output. The bike does run without the battery so I'm guessing it's enough. One of the plug wires is bad and I will be replacing them both.

I did remove the primary cover again to have a look and noticed where the wiring leaves the stator that part of it is bare with no sealant covering it. Is that a problem and allowing part of my voltage to bleed out and not make it to the VR and the rest of the bike?
 
chopped850 said:
I don't know what the w's are on the alt/stator. It say's Lucas on it. What caps and wires did you buy that took care of the problem?
Click to expand...

If you have the stock alternator, it's probably 180W single phase or 200 W three-phase depending on the year of your bike. How many wires running from it? Two or three? My 74 Commando has a 180W, single-phase SPARX alternator and Podtronics voltage regulator. Keeps the battery charged just fine.

To correct the charging issue on the G12, I just bought some solid copper wire from the local auto supply place and I already had some NJK 5 ohm resistor caps. Once I ran solid copper wires I had voltages at the battery of 13-14 volts. Are you running non-resistor plugs? I run NJK BP7ES plugs on my Commando.
 
tpeever said:
If you have the stock alternator, it's probably 180W single phase or 200 W three-phase depending on the year of your bike.
Click to expand...


The "stock" alternator would be a 120W Lucas RM21 single-phase, unless it was an 850 MkIII in which case it would be a 180W single-phase Lucas RM23.

Three-phase alternators were not fitted as standard to any Commando, as the RM24 three-phase unit wasn't actually made available until sometime after Commando production ended.
 
I cant see how changing the plug wires, caps etc will have any effect on the charging. The resistance of the coils being too low will use more of the available power so will leave less to charge the battery, but before that really has an effect, the Boyer will stop working anyway.

Regards

Bob.
 
Bobolink said:
I cant see how changing the plug wires, caps etc will have any effect on the charging.
Click to expand...


The circuitry of some modern voltage control boxes (such as Sparx) can be affected by spark RFI, so resistor caps/plugs need to be used.

http://www.tri-corengland.com/acatalog/ ... tions.html

Quote: "Important
**Single & Three phase boxes***
Due to the sensitive nature of both the single and three phase boxes it is VERY important to fit spark plug caps of the 5000ohm resisted type.
Failure to do so will cause overloading. "



Digital electronic ignition systems such as Boyer Micro-Digital, Micro-Power, Pazon (Smart fire) and Tri-spark ignitions can also be affected by RFI if HT resistors are not used.
 
Bobolink said:
I cant see how changing the plug wires, caps etc will have any effect on the charging..
Click to expand...

I know, I thought it was very strange myself. When I started asking around, I found others had observed the same phenomenon. The location of the amplifier box relative to the ignition wires can also have an effect. I am still hoping that someone here can explain to me how it works!!
 
L.A.B. said:
The "stock" alternator would be a 120W Lucas RM21 single-phase, unless it was an 850 MkIII in which case it would be a 180W single-phase Lucas RM23.

Three-phase alternators were not fitted as standard to any Commando, as the RM24 three-phase unit wasn't actually made available until sometime after Commando production ended.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification on that LAB.
 
tpeever said:
Bobolink said:
I cant see how changing the plug wires, caps etc will have any effect on the charging..
Click to expand...

I know, I thought it was very strange myself. When I started asking around, I found others had observed the same phenomenon. The location of the amplifier box relative to the ignition wires can also have an effect. I am still hoping that someone here can explain to me how it works!!
Click to expand...

The stator only has 2 wires so it's a single phase. Should the alternator have the numbers on it? I can only see "LUCAS" on it. Can the wires and caps be had from any autoparts store or cycle shop only? I mounted the voltage regulator to the coil bracket and wonder if that is too close to everything. I'm gonna get after it today.
 
chopped850 said:
Should the alternator have the numbers on it? I can only see "LUCAS" on it.
Click to expand...

The RM21 stator should have "47205" stamped on it (sometimes quite faintly and in small digits), also its week/year of production.

The rotor should also have a number stamped on it? Can you say what that number is?




chopped850 said:
Can the wires and caps be had from any autoparts store or cycle shop only?
Click to expand...


Use standard copper core HT (spark) wire and 5000 Ohm (5kOhm) plug caps. The most common type are made by NGK, but any 5kOhm caps should do, provided they are reasonably waterproof type?
 
L.A.B. said:
chopped850 said:
Should the alternator have the numbers on it? I can only see "LUCAS" on it.
Click to expand...

The RM21 stator should have "47205" stamped on it (sometimes quite faintly and in small digits), also its week/year of production.

The rotor should also have a number stamped on it? Can you say what that number is?




chopped850 said:
Can the wires and caps be had from any autoparts store or cycle shop only?
Click to expand...


Use standard copper core HT (spark) wire and 5000 Ohm (5kOhm) plug caps. The most common type are made by NGK, but any 5kOhm caps should do, provided they are reasonably waterproof type?
Click to expand...

I will have another look at the parts and post them later. I have alot of work to do. Thanks again for the info.
 
chopped850 said:
Can the wires and caps be had from any autoparts store or cycle shop only?
Click to expand...

I was able to get solid copper wire from a local auto parts house. It is not the easiest to find as most vehicles these days run carbon fibre suppressor wire. The solid copper wire is still available but you may have to shop around to find it. I assume resistor caps are easily available as well. I got mine with the Boyer kit and are NJK brand. Another option would be to try running suppressor wire with non-suppressor caps. I have used this combination successfully on several of my bikes with Boyer ignitions.

chopped850 said:
I mounted the voltage regulator to the coil bracket and wonder if that is too close to everything. I'm gonna get after it today.
Click to expand...

That may be too close to the ignition wires. Maybe someone else has experience with mounting it in this position? I attached mine just behind the battery box. Can send you a photo if you are interested.
 
Well here is why the bike was not charging.

Who else is running a voltage regulator?


Now I wonder if it can be fixed or am I stuck buying another stator? I'm gonna call Rickystator tomorrow and see if they can fix it. If anyone has a good stator that they removed to replace with an aftermarket one let me know. The alternator is fine and I only want to replace the stator.

The numbers on the alternator are 562001144 1/74.
 
chopped850 said:
Someone on the Jockey Journal led me onto the GABMA site. This link is what I was looking for and can help alot of people out also.

http://www.gabma.us/elec/proper_grounding.pdf
Click to expand...

I had a look at this link and came across this piece of info, (page 4, 5th paragraph down), "When all 3 reasons are considered, it’s much better to stack all system return wires on the
clean rectifier post, then run a single, short loop over to the battery. This short loop may
include the fuse depending on your fuse polarity preference." There is also a diagram in the 'Ammeter Connection' link showing a fuse on the Earth/ return side rather than on the feed side. Can a fuse be wired in this way?
 
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