verify oil tappets/rocker box ?

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Sep 23, 2019
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Hi All ,

Repalced O ring on exhaust rocker shaft due to oil leaking and covering left side panel in oil ( so leaking reasonably badly ), and I noticed a 'burnt 'oil smell at beginning of job , almost as if not getting enough oil to tappets etc.
What would be a simple way to verify adequate oil supply to rocker boxes ? remove inspection caps while running and seeing tappets etc bathed in oil ? I realise not alot of oil gets up there, but it would be nice to know it is !

Cheers Hendo
 
Has the engine been apart recently? Rocker shafts could be indexed incorrectly. If I recall they use a cotter pin to restrict an oil passage that could be missing. Not a Triumph expert, just a couple things I remember. Include the year and someone will chime in with more experience. Good luck
 
Thank you , no not for a few years, bike is 1970 triumph tiger 650 tr6r ,I've replaced a O ring before with no issues.......I may be over thinking this possibly.....
I'll run bike and see if oil is coating the tappets etc
 
If you slacken off the rocker oil feed nuts you should see oil leaking from there just by kicking it over a few times.

If the oil return system is working, and you can see oil returning to the tank, then you can discount any pump failure etc.

The rocker oil feed is on the return. It relies on having a restriction in the oil return in the tank that creates back pressure that then forces oil to the rockers.

Do you have this restriction? Have you got an aftermarket tank etc without one?

Also, because the rocker feed is on the return, then any blockage in the rocker oil feed will simply make more oil return directly to the tank.

But I think you’ll find all is normal. Triumphs do run hot up there, especially if you ride ‘em hard. My main question therefore is: are you using good oil? A lot of mineral oils will blacken and burn easily in a Triumph head.

I recently worked on My T140, the mineral oil inside (recommended by a Triumph expert) was burnt and black as coal!

I now almost always use one of these two oils (in my old clunkers at least):

With a wet clutch I’d use Bel Ray 10/50 V Twin synthetic (can be used with dry clutch too).
With a dry clutch I’d use Royal Purple HPS 10w40 synthetic (must NOT be used with a wet clutch).

Both of the above oils scored highly by Comnoz in this study he did:

 
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Thanks Fast Eddie,

Yes have restriction , oil is returning to tank fine , I use the Morris 20 -50 v twin ( I actually pm'd Jim a while ago re the morris oil for my Norton and He said it would be fine for my bike and conditions here, had already been using in the triumph ) Jim's study is pretty comprehensive !

I do ride the ole girl reasonably briskly ,and that may contribute also .
Havent heard of the Bel Ray oil, and the royal purple is hard to get where I am, and prob very expensive !
I'll kick her over tomorrow and have a look at the rocker nuts.

Cheers Hendo
 
Your right , I guess the burnt oil smell and residue on the rocker caps concerned me,
although oil flying out the o ring instead of staying in the rocker box made me wonder !
 
Jim rated the Morris in the second category, so certainly not a bad oil by any means.

The downside is it had a high number for ‘total heat from friction’ which basically means the oil gets hot from friction. So, add to that the extreme nature of a hot Triumph head and the oil is having a hard life… it is likely burning / breaking down.

Still doesn’t make it a bad oil… just means you should perhaps reduce your oil change intervals… in fact, oil change intervals should not be ‘fixed’ and we should all factor in the actual use. I heard an interview with a US HD specialist explaining that one week at Daytona or Sturgis, with the big air cooled engines sat in traffic and / or moving slowly, would be more than enough to break down the oil and necessitate a change, IRRESPECTIVE of the mileage covered…
 
Thanks Fast Eddie,

Your correct, I tend to run a shorter oil change interval as you've mentioned away, and as I live in a cooler part of NZ ( Southland ) this may help also along with great riding roads and no traffic as such !
 
Anything written by John Healey about Triumphs is worth reading in full. Several times usually.
Yes, John sold thousands of Triumphs and dealt with the subsequent complaints and warranty claims. He’s smart enough that he learned (learns) from his experience.

John also made racers out of T140s and if he tells you drilling cam gears and taking the springy washers off the rocker shafts is a waste of time, you may as well believe him.
 
Everyone with a T140E should read John’s notes on mk2 carbs, covering what Amal did to them to overcome the emissions challenges, and what should be done now if riding one. And, the interrelated topic of plug choices for the different head.

But this is another topic entirely.
 
John also made racers out of T140s and if he tells you drilling cam gears and taking the springy washers off the rocker shafts is a waste of time, you may as well believe him.
I have a pretty baseless personal belief that the heavier cam wheels and springs on rocker shafts have a beneficial dampening effect on the valve train (something eluded to by Comnoz in his Spintron experiments a few years ago).
 
Many thanks Guys, Your right about John Healy ,I've certainly read plenty on the Triumph Rat forum over the years as there are may great experts on that forum ,
As there are on the Access Norton forum also
 
Everyone with a T140E should read John’s notes on mk2 carbs, covering what Amal did to them to overcome the emissions challenges, and what should be done now if riding one. And, the interrelated topic of plug choices for the different head.

But this is another topic entirely.
do you have a link to the article?

Thanks in advance

(long term T140E owner, 41years this Sept)
 
do you have a link to the article?

Thanks in advance

(long term T140E owner, 41years this Sept)
Not as such, but this was the key points:

John Healy
"The MKII carbs came with two basic set-ups for T140s:
European (non-EPA)
124/026 #15 pilot jet
124/012 #35 choke jet
2928/122 .106 needle jet
2928/030 #3 1/2 slide (leaner than US equivelent)
2622/124 2A1 needle
No air jet fitted

US EPA
124/026 #25 pilot jet
124/026 #50 choke jet
2928/031 .105 (special stainless steel)
2926/060 #3 slide
2928/030 2C3 needle
An air jet was fitted to the central air inlet on US EPA models."


Very important to remove the little alloy ‘air jets’ mentioned. I’d never heard of them until I got playing around with my current T140!

On mine I ended up with #3 slides and 220 mains. Even Burlens are confused as they sell new carbs for T140s with a mixed bag of jetting, there‘s really no wonder folk struggle! Lots of waffle and some links here:

 
GEEEESSSS . i thought every two year old knew , on this ' old British Rubbish , put a finger over the oil return bleed hole ( in the tank ) to force the return / rocker to full pressure .
Can pay to do it on occasion , to ' blow ' obstructions , goop , stickyness etc free - Positive Pressue feed . Like a Commando . Bout the only Triumph stuff up .
Clean Cool Pressureised oil'd have to be better cooling and lube for the valve gear . Might be a chance it'd want metering though .

ANYWAY , block the return outlet to set pressue supply through the valve gear , with the fingertip . On a new start up , or long lay off . to flush the valve gear .

verify oil tappets/rocker box ?
 
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